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  #11  
Old 29-07-12, 06:05 PM
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mona mona is offline
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Default working with lapis lazuli

Hi John, sorry so slow, I only make it onto the Forum about once a month or so. To some extent questions about color mixing are too tough to securely answer online with everyone's monitor indicating something slightly different, so that is part of what we do the egg tempera workshops for. The version of lapis you are citing on Kremer is a very pure variety, and of course the purer it is, the more brilliant the color. I would say on my screen the Kremer Fra Angelica Blue almost matches Kremer Ultramarine Very Dark, although I don't have the Fra Angelica Blue here first-hand, I'm looking at my screen for it, so again, I can't really answer this for sure.

I would say just try it, but also, just enjoy your Masterworks lapis for what it is, it looks very beautiful. To confirm, the name of the pigment I have is called Ultramarine Very Dark (pigment #45000), rather than 'extra dark'.

The DeMairo lapis is a shade lighter than the Fra Angelica Blue lapis from Masterworks according to my screen if that is of help.

Mona
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  #12  
Old 29-07-12, 06:09 PM
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mona mona is offline
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Default working with lapis lazuli

P.S., John, I goofed in my most recent previous post in one respect, the lapis you bought was from Cornelissen, and I did in fact look it up on Cornelissen in order to respond, so that's what I meant, --- 'your lapis from Cornelissen, looks beautiful'. Mona
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  #13  
Old 30-07-12, 01:37 AM
arbrador arbrador is offline
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Default The Romance of Lapis

For those of you entranced with the idea of lapis lazuli genuine I recommend making your own if only for the experience. True the results were not what I expected and as I washed out the different grades in lye I was left with an ashy color. Actually there is something called Lapis Ash which is supposed to be the lowest grade. I did use my home made lapis on one painting but I can't remember if I mixed other blues in with it to try to brighten it up. I don't have an image of it except on my website. If you go to www.arbrador.com and click on "Medical Mysteries" gallery, it is the painting called, "The Death of Jack Walsh".

Anyway there was an amazing thrill in the making of the paint. I followed Cennini's recipe and obtained lapis from a gem store. Most lapis comes from Afghanistan or at least it did when I made it (about 20+ years ago). One must try to find lapis with the least amount of pyrite (fool's gold) in it. Then I ground it in a metal mortar and pestle. I obtained beeswax from a violin maker and mastic crystals from a supply house. I kneaded it together like a ball of lapis silly putty. I let it sit around for a month or more and than washed it in a basin of lye. I can't remember all the details but it was Cennini's recipe and I still have envelopes of the different grades.

Using it was thrilling even if the color was not remarkable. So if it entrances you go for it. You won't regret the experience of making your own lapis lazuli paint!
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  #14  
Old 30-07-12, 01:25 PM
artsyiconophile artsyiconophile is offline
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Thank you, Mona. Your response is very helpful. I will likely buy the Ultramarine Very Dark and mix it with the lapis I have from Cornelissen in order to bring it closer to true Fra Angelico Blue. I really like the crystaline structure of true lapis and the little impurities of pyrite make it sparkle ever so slightly. Again, thank you.

John Auger
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  #15  
Old 30-07-12, 01:47 PM
artsyiconophile artsyiconophile is offline
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Arbrador,

I do have some high-grade lapis that I was going to grind & try to make Fra Angelico Blue. But, I have learned from other sources that this is a tricky process where, if not done perfectly, can result in the contamination of the first release of pigment by lower quality pigment. Maybe one day I will give it a try.

John Auger
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