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Old 01-05-08, 03:21 PM
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Default Does anyone know...

what Noir Mineral is? I bought a container of it in Roussillon, France a couple of years ago and it is a wonderful black. Unfortunately I am running out and there doesn't seem to be any way to contact the outfit I bought it from. Someone (Alessandra?) said she thought it was Mars Black, but this is pretty transparent and mars is supposed to be very opaque.

Thanks, Phil

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Old 01-05-08, 11:00 PM
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Hey Phil.
I use a black from Zecchi called terra nera Romana, which is a black earth color. It is warm in tone, fairly transparent, and slightly more granular than the normal commercial blacks. It might be similar to your noir mineral de France. Of course, it's not so easy to pop into Florence for an afternoon from Maine, but maybe you could try to find a way to get ahold of some. (I'd send you a baggie, but I'm running low myself.)
Dennis
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Old 02-05-08, 05:08 AM
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Perhaps this is it. http://naturalpigments.com/detail.as...UCT_ID=481-13S
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Old 05-05-08, 07:47 PM
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Thanks guys. Been away for a little while so I didn't answer sooner.
Roma Black. Sounds like it's made from rotten tomatoes.
Phil
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Old 30-05-08, 07:22 AM
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Conservatoire des Ocres et des Pigments Appliqués, Usine Mathieu
84220 Roussillon.
Tél:.04 90 05 66 69.
Fax 04 90 05 66 69.

How is your french? maybe these guys can help. With all the great advice you've given me I did a little search to see if I could help. (It may not be the same as the one from Rublev which seems to be opaque.) what I found was an amazing place to visit.. it must have been incredible. (We hope to retire in France in another 20 years or so, but brittany is looking a little more affordable than provence.)

http://parisbreakfasts.blogspot.com/...-provence.html

Maybe this blogger who works for kremer might be able to find the pigment for you. The things you learn at one o'clock in the morning. This was very worth it but i have to work on getting to sleep earlier, so I can get up to work every day before the little ones wake...

Hope you find it... sounds like Zecchi may be a good source. Would love to see how you have used it in your work, and hear how it compares to other blacks. How can you be sure of the permanence of some of the earth colours? Sorry to ask so many questions...
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Old 30-05-08, 01:50 PM
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Thanks Jpohl!

I actually have their tel. # on the container, but haven't called for fear that they don't speak English. My French is still in elementary school. I may give it a shot anyway. I have had some bad experiences with connection problems, then communication problems, followed by a $100 phone bill.

Yes, permanence of earth colors is a concern, though I wouldn't think so much so with blacks. When I bought this black in Roussillon, the lady told me it was a historical color that had been used for centuries in egg tempera. (Of course she's going to say that...) You try to cover all the bases, but at some point you just have to dive in and paint!

Phil
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Old 30-05-08, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilS View Post
Thanks Jpohl!

I actually have their tel. # on the container, but haven't called for fear that they don't speak English. My French is still in elementary school. I may give it a shot anyway. I have had some bad experiences with connection problems, then communication problems, followed by a $100 phone bill.

Yes, permanence of earth colors is a concern, though I wouldn't think so much so with blacks. When I bought this black in Roussillon, the lady told me it was a historical color that had been used for centuries in egg tempera. (Of course she's going to say that...) You try to cover all the bases, but at some point you just have to dive in and paint!

Phil
Maybe you have a friend who speaks french well, or there is someone a little closer (with a good long distance plan) reading this forum who would offer to phone... if not even a simple "bonjour" will be appreciated i'm sure, and there is likely someone there who speaks English or can translate, and there's always the fax. My husband is the linguist in the family, and has a natural ear that I lack. It sounds terrible but I actually like not understanding a language when a go to a new place and soaking in the atmosphere.. being lost in the visuals, as strange as it sounds. I'm promising to learn if we are ever to move there as planned, and have about 20 years to work on it. For future reference it might be worth asking about the index number, but you've likely already thought of that. I'd love to hear it if you find out what it is. (Not every earth colour has an index number though? Still trying to understand these things, and why there are several shades/colours with the same reference number.)

Visiting Roussillon must make working with earth tones much more meaningful on some level... it's also interesting to have recently read that there is a group of oil painters eschewing cadmiums in favor of earth tones of late.

Jumping in to paint is just what i have to do.. as inspired as I am by all that I'm learning. Time to stop paddling. Can't believe it has taken two months to get a little ivory black and titanium white pigment and palettes from Jerry's to start with.. nobody seems to know why it was held up, but a lady there intervened and was there nice enough in the end to give me a break on shipping, so I might actually risk ordering from them again... their sales prices may be worth the risk.)

sorry if my thoughts are jumping around... I need to start the meditative act of painting and focusing on the work at hand. (it just hit me like a ton of bricks that my baby is turning two... and i've still been thinking of him as a baby. I have little excuse to not be more disciplined and schedule my time to paint better.)

all the best, jp.

Last edited by jpohl; 30-05-08 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 30-05-08, 07:09 PM
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p.s. just a thought. if you have trouble with getting through on the phone, or someone to help you more directly.. feel free to send me a message you'd like to fax and I could get Doug (my hubbie) to translate it and fax it from work for you.. and have the response emailed back to you.
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Old 30-05-08, 08:04 PM
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I may take you up on that, jpohl. Thanks for the offer!

Right now I'm crunching to get one last painting done before a show in New York next month. Rushing egg tempera is like pushing a hippo.

Phil

p.s. If you ever get a chance to go to France, I would recommend visiting Roussillon. It's one of the most bizarre landscapes I've ever seen. Just don't wear white sneakers. They will turn pink.
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Old 02-06-08, 08:02 PM
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well that sounds like a cool way to get pink sneakers.. it would be quite a souvenir. It's on my list of must visit places before I die now.

I really look forward to seeing the new work!

Just send a message along when you are ready, if somebody else doesn't get back to you first.

I popped back today after hitting upon an interesting use for Roman black pigment today.. while I was looking at Prud'hon's technique for cross hatching. After all these years of painting I'm just discovering the importance of drawing through egg tempera.. and truly getting back to basics. Just had to share this: http://www.art.net/studios/visual/Re...OnPrudon4.html (This is a wonderful site. I'm hoping to follow this artist's demonstration and learn a great deal.. I have always been taken Prud'hon and would love to have this in book form.) The website owner is quite an artist.. she's even conceived her own ballet...

http://www.williamsburgoilpaint.bizl...thpigments.htm The Roman black (22P) she refers to here is a transparent variety. I wonder if it's the same one and the description for Rublev's is misleading? Probably not though. Williamburg says their Roman Earth is wonderful for glazing, mixing and has cool undertones. (Rublev doesn't say if the brown undertones are cool or warm.) They might be worth comparing..

and now I will try to stay away to get some work done once again. With so little time I have to manage it well... but don't we all?

Last edited by jpohl; 02-06-08 at 08:18 PM.
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