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Old 10-02-11, 02:02 AM
Bumpkinboy's Avatar
Bumpkinboy Bumpkinboy is offline
<That's Andy ... I'm Bob
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central PA, USA
Posts: 48

Hmmm ... I don't even see my own picture. !! Anyway, that cutie happens to be Opie. Part of the trio - Andy, Opie and Barney. Guess you know where we got those names. :-) They're bichons, and are positively the best little companions one could hope for.

BTW - it was RobB or RobM (? sorry Rob) who made (several) archival comments. Found one again whilst browsing the older posts today. I believe I'm using all archival stuff, but like Rob I don't obsess over it. I mean, I'm not cheeky enough to think that my work will hang in the Uffizi several hundred years from now. And I watch some of these outsider artists scratch out a charcoal drawing on a brown paper bag and it sells for $70K -- tells me how much some buyers don't give a hoot about archival.

I will definitely try your sponging technique, esp. for things like sky. Large 'wash' areas. And I'll start with a minimal underpainting, and progress to more detailed ones only if needed. Better to start out minimal rather than do a detailed sub-painting and be unwilling to budge from that position ... because things turned out so FABULOUS. hahah In my dreams. Literally!
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Old 14-02-11, 07:44 PM
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mona mona is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 205
Default Can I mix dry pigments and tube stuff?

Bob, I love your sense of humor, and I see you are from Central PA. I grew up in Mechanicsburg, PA, (south central).

Hand-mixed egg tempera usually has only distilled water or white wine and egg yolk if you are doing water-based. The Sennelier medium ingredients are listed as egg, gum arabic and vegetable oil (but thin with water). Not sure what's in the tubed paint itself (no online listing).

I have taught that painting with tube gouaches mixed with homemake egg medium (or watercolor if necessary, but more gum arabic there), is purer than Sennelier because there is no oil in it, but also if there is gum arabic, both in regular gouache and in Sennelier egg tempera paints, you need less egg than with powder pigments.

Archival or not, you are no doubt fine to use your Senneliers up, but I'd echo Koo--- it's a different painting experience. Does anyone feel the DickBlick claim is true that "this is the authentic formulation used since the Renaissance"? There are recipes for oil-based egg tempera too, but has anyone on the Forum used vegetable oil?

I don't do an ink underdrawing like some folks do. My underpainting is usually just a tone, either blue or earth greens. Think of starting off like a watercolor and build from there.

If anyone is on Facebook there are some great ET demos over there, including Salamander's (Eric's)
at this link:
And here is one of mine:

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Old 15-02-11, 02:14 AM
Bumpkinboy's Avatar
Bumpkinboy Bumpkinboy is offline
<That's Andy ... I'm Bob
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central PA, USA
Posts: 48
Default Hi again Mona!

I just replied to your posting of that demo by the Russian couple. And I just now checked out the other 2 demos you linked here.

That first one ... Lordy, what on earth is that thing? It gave me the willies. Your demo 'looks' like it all took place on the same day - I'm looking at the date under the photo. ? Or is that just the date that you uploaded it? Gotta be, because I've been following your painting of that girl on your website and your blog. Most interesting. I was aghast when you scrubbed out one area on her sleeve, and repainted it. And it matched! I don't think I could do that in a million years - match it I mean. Wow.

How typical of me. When I embark on any new 'project,' the first thing I do is buy everything in sight. Everything. I have more art supplies than Cheap Joe's. So now, I have: powdered pigments, AND Sennelier tubes (about 30 of them), AND some binder stuff from Sennelier (has egg and oil in it, just mix with pigment) to make your own egg oil et mixture. Hey, maybe I am a good one to try these various mixtures and file a report ... as Koo says, at least I won't have any prejudices from using one method for years.

So I'll try it all! And let you know what works best (for me anyway). Sennelier doesn't appear to be answering my email inquiry - why am I not surprised? So I'll experiment with that too - using both types of paint on a single painting.

I live right near Breezewood. Not too far from your old home. My home state is Rhode Island - so I never cease to be amazed at how big Pennsylvania really is. Plus I lived for years in New Hampshire - far far north (Berlin), and then Portsmouth area. Koo is from the far west in NH. Small world. Well, except for all these artist from Greece, England, Scotland, Australia etc.

Well since I jumped into 'advanced edit' mode so I could put a title on this thing, I can no longer see your reply. If I'm failing to comment on something, my apologies. I'll catch it in another post. Thanks again Mona!
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Old 16-02-11, 12:36 AM
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Koo Schadler Koo Schadler is offline
Tempera Painter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Alstead, NH & Zirahuen, Mexico
Posts: 316

Hello Mona,

I've always wondered precisely what is in the Sennelier tubed egg temperas but they are proprietary about the formula. I didn't know about their medium and its ingredients (which perhaps answers the question of what's in the tubes) - thanks for the good information.

All the drying oils used in oil paints (linseed, walnut, poppy, etc) are technically called "vegetable oils". Thus my presumption is that Sennelier uses the term "vegetable oil" because either (a) they are using something like safflower or sunflower oil - which are drying oils, but not ones popularly used by painters, and they don't want to freak people out with those ingredients, or (b) maybe they use a variety of vegetable drying oils and so classify them under that general term. Only a presumption though.

I have to admit it annoys me a bit that the tube egg tempera paint manufacturers don't differentiate between pure egg tempera and egg/oil tempera. Its misleading; people don't realize they are distinct mediums, with different working properties and results. Similarly, people comment on the sort of painting Pietro Annigoni did using "egg tempera", (hoping for similar results), when (I believe) his work was mostly (all?) done in tempera grassa, or egg/oil tempera. But I'm quibbling. They are both great mediums - just different.

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Old 20-02-11, 03:34 AM
Alessandra Kelley Alessandra Kelley is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 417

I have to dig out my notes, but once upon a time I tested two or three different brands of egg tempera in tubes and came to some conclusions about what was in them based on smell, handling, and drying properties. All of the tube ones seem to have some admixture of oil in them ... One brand (I can't remember which) even had a slight turpentiney smell, oddly enough. I don't think there are any brands of pure egg egg tempera out there.

I would generally go with the rule of "fat over lean", classifying tube egg temperas as fat. This is about handling properties, you understand. The tube egg temperas I tested all took a lot longer to dry than homemade tempera, and were a lot softer and prone to being picked up by subsequent layers of paint.
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