Egg Tempera Forums

Go Back   Egg Tempera Forums > The Forums > The Forum for Tempera Painting Issues

The Forum for Tempera Painting Issues Sharing the knowledge and experience of fellow tempera painters.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14-11-05, 10:14 PM
odyssic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default sennelier egg tempera emulsion in a tube

Does anyone have any experience with sennelier egg tempera tube colors? I'm experimenting with them for large washes of solid color and having a little trouble getting them even.

Also, how does the surface of a tempera painting that is not an emulsion dry? I hear matte, but can it be buffed to a semi gloss like casein? When I buff this painting done with Sennelier it is fairly glossy.

Also, I'm considering adding a little bit of oil in the upper layers to avoid the cracking I get when i don't watch the lean to fat rule very carefully.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks!

Steven
San Francisco
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15-11-05, 03:35 AM
Salamander's Avatar
Salamander Salamander is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 340
Default

Steven,
I use Sennilier's tubed et. I use approximately the same medium that Turlough makes when using it, ie. 2 yolks 1 Tbl black oil and water to thin as needed.. I also use watercolours in the same way. I kinda like the ease of use but you just can't get the same colour saturation of true powdered pigments. There is some thing to be said for convenience though.
Best
Eric in Oceanside, Ca
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16-11-05, 07:14 PM
Alessandra Kelley Alessandra Kelley is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 417
Default

I have some old notes from experimenting with egg temera in tubes years ago.

I found tube egg temperas, compared to handmade "classic" egg tempera, to be smoother, more transparent, and much slower to dry. They also had a much more fragile surface and were more easily disturbed by overpainting. This was true for all the brands I tried, including Sennelier.

We don't know what they put in tubed egg tempera, and I suspect until there is a disclosure law passed we never will. It can't be pure egg yolk, of course, because that would spoil. So we can conclude that Something has been added to preserve the paint indefinitely. Whatever that Something is, it will have an effect on the drying rate and appearance of the paint.

My guess is that the Something is generally an admixture of oil of some kind. Some brands (not Sennelier) have a distinctive linseedy smell, sometimes even of turpentine! Whatever they are, tube egg temperas are Not Quite Egg Tempera.

What exactly do you mean by "the surface of a tempera painting that is not an emulsion"? Regular egg tempera generally dries to a satiny finish (some pigments, like the Ultramarines, dry matte), which can be buffed to a nice soft shine when completely dried.

You shouldn't have to add any oil at all, as the "fat over lean" rule *only* applies to oil paint. (This is further evidence to me that the tube egg tempera manufacturers add oil to their paints) Tempera colors can be laid over each other in any order, and don't generally crack unless a paint layer is too thick.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17-11-05, 02:45 AM
alexgarcia
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have never used the tubed tempera but have used their binder that comes in a jar. I tried this early on and experienced issues similar to Alessandra. I don't use the binder for these very reasons. I don't like how it dries and how it lifts.

As far as what is in the binder medium this is what it says on the Blick art site:

Sennelier Egg Tempera Binding Medium
Contains egg, gum arabic, and vegetable oil.
http://www.dickblick.com/zz029/61c/

They may use something different in their tubes but atleast we get some indication that there are other things in the binder to prolong it as Alessandra mentioned.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17-11-05, 09:20 PM
odyssic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I thought I read somewhere that Senellier is an oil emulsion tempera. It feels that way anyway, and when buffed down it is a little more gloss than semi gloss. Does anyone buff their pure et works?

That thing about overlayers picking up underlayers has been very annoying. Maybe I can avoid some of that by mixing my own. I just don't want to use dry pigments in my apartment. Does some online art company carry pigment dispersions? I've mixed water with gamblin pigments too. That worked ok but if there is an easier way I might try it out. Also, I had to store them in the fridge to avoid mold.

Also, if you've noticed, the ultramarine Senellier smells like rotten eggs. I've gotten probably 10 tubes in the past six months and they all had this smell. Whatever preserves the other colors must have some adverse effect on the ultramarine?

Steven
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18-11-05, 03:32 AM
Dennis H's Avatar
Dennis H Dennis H is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Auburn, AL, USA
Posts: 177
Default

I've used the Kremer color concentrates with pigmented plaster applications. I know some people who've used Createx with ET, and seemed to like them. Here are a couple of links:

http://www.createxcolors.com/product...ent_colors.htm
http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/englis...orconcentrates

I find Ultramarine blue does sometimes stink, even with just dry pigment and water.
Dennis

Quote:
Originally Posted by odyssic
I thought I read somewhere that Senellier is an oil emulsion tempera. It feels that way anyway, and when buffed down it is a little more gloss than semi gloss. Does anyone buff their pure et works?

That thing about overlayers picking up underlayers has been very annoying. Maybe I can avoid some of that by mixing my own. I just don't want to use dry pigments in my apartment. Does some online art company carry pigment dispersions? I've mixed water with gamblin pigments too. That worked ok but if there is an easier way I might try it out. Also, I had to store them in the fridge to avoid mold.

Also, if you've noticed, the ultramarine Senellier smells like rotten eggs. I've gotten probably 10 tubes in the past six months and they all had this smell. Whatever preserves the other colors must have some adverse effect on the ultramarine?

Steven
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21-11-05, 06:50 PM
Alessandra Kelley Alessandra Kelley is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicago, Illinois USA
Posts: 417
Default

Kremer pigments sells pigments dispersed in water. I use them for pigments which are extra troublesome to grind at home.

As for the rotten egg smell, Ultramarine Blue is Sodium Aluminum Sulfo-silicate. It's the sulfur in the compound that gives it that smell. I suspect it's subtle variations in the proportions that can make a particular batch of Ultramarine more or less smelly.

One thing I like about dealing with the straight pigments is that you really get a handle on their physical properties -- how they smell, how they mix, and so on.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sennelier Egg Tempera - Colors? jason_maranto The Forum for Tempera Painting Issues 4 09-05-06 05:57 PM
Painting over egg/oil emulsion layers with pure egg tempera zarina The Forum for Tempera Painting Issues 2 14-11-05 07:29 PM
Tube watercolor vs. powdered pigment advise, Please mara The Forum for Tempera Painting Issues 15 13-11-05 10:46 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:57 PM.
Design modifications, graphics and CSS by RobM
June 2010



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.