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  #11  
Old 20-02-07, 03:01 AM
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Bert Congdon Bert Congdon is offline
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Default Portrait

I think Fred's method is exactly right. That is exactly the way I was trained, and continue to paint. On true gesso, I do a silver point drawing, then go to black and white paint ( green umber and white with mixtures in between) and what should be dark I darken, what should be light I lighten. I keep this up until I have a grisaille. Once you get this far, it's easy. All you have to do is color it. I use glaze on glaze until I think it's finished.

Didn't I say here one time that I had a teacher who said it took two people to finish a painting? One paints, the other hits you over the head when it's done.

I hadn'nt seen this particular site of Fred's before now. Wow, I thought. Just like I was trained by Steve.

I Don't understand the lower layer moving around. When I paint on true gesso (glue and chalk), when it's down, it's down. Nothing moves from then on.
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  #12  
Old 20-02-07, 04:41 AM
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Salamander Salamander is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Congdon
I had a teacher who said it took two people to finish a painting? One paints, the other hits you over the head when it's done.
That is so True!!!

-eric
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  #13  
Old 22-02-07, 03:14 AM
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Maplebrush, I was thinking that it might be possible to use tempera a bit like layers of skin and fat. The skin is made up of translucent layers like ET, so maybe if we built it up a painting in a similar way we could arrive at a livlier representation. This seems to be your approach. True?

Bert, when you do the grisaille is it like a monochrome glazing of the base drawing, and do you do it over a colour ground?

jeff
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  #14  
Old 22-02-07, 06:11 PM
maplebrush maplebrush is offline
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Hi Jeff!

Exactly! And Bert's tutorial is very similar to what I do with gouache and colored pencil. I can't wait to try it with et. (I need to knuckle down and try my hand at a traditional ground first. (See my other posts. I'm REALLY new to this medium.)

-M
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  #15  
Old 22-02-07, 11:25 PM
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Bert Congdon Bert Congdon is offline
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Hi Jeff,
Hi Maple, yes the grisaille is monochrome, but not a glaze. I lay the paint on, but seldom does it take only one coat even though it's not a glaze. I work at it slow, seldom using black (but I am thinking about trying Mars Black), and seldom getting the darks or the lights the right shade on the first try. Naturally on a white background it's easy to get white with one stroke, but I find the need for pure white very seldom. Notice that Wessel's grisaile is many shades of grey, seldom any black seldom any pure white. If I am working from a picture, I sometimes look through a blue filter. With a little imagination you can see a black and white picture. I might hit every thing two or three times or until I get a good b&w. Once I have that, I'm home free. I just have to color it. This now is done with glazes, layer upon layer. It's just coloring like I did as a kid, and it goes fast. I don't mean to fool you; my underpainting and the finished work does not look like Wessel's. That is why I am trying to go to Italy with him in the spring, so I can get instruction directly from him.
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  #16  
Old 22-02-07, 11:36 PM
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One more thing, I like green under flesh tones such as terre verte as someone has already said. As I recall, Mr. Wessel also uses green.
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  #17  
Old 23-02-07, 05:42 PM
Alessandra Kelley Alessandra Kelley is offline
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Jeff and Sabine, the commonest reason for egg tempera underlayers to be picked up is that they are not dry enough yet.

Tempera is said to dry quickly. This is true, but only partially. In addition to the loss of water which causes the initial drying, there is a chemical curing of the drying oils in the egg yolk itself which takes a longer time.

After a brief time tempera paint can be painted over, but only in careful, not too wet brushstrokes.

After a day you can paint several layers over it in quick succession.

After a week you can paint over it in wet washes and then paint over that as well.

After four months (in my experience) you can scrub it with bristle brushes full of watery paint and not budge it.

Learning how much you can paint over your underlayers, and how soon, is one of the subtle parts of tempera painting.
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  #18  
Old 24-02-07, 03:22 AM
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That's nice to have that time-line for layering, Alessandra. The way I have been using ET to date has somewhat avoided the issues of lots of transparent overpainting, but I realised that this was making me miss out on some of the best effects from ET. Your point emphasises just how important a systematic approach to ET actually is I think.

jeff
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  #19  
Old 25-02-07, 11:26 AM
sabine sabine is offline
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Thanks for the time chart Alexandra... I tried to respect the waiting times though, but find it difficult to be always so meticulous...
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  #20  
Old 27-02-07, 03:32 AM
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My problem too, Sabine. I get impatient. I think a good solution is to have lots of other parts of the painting to work on so that it can absorb time.
Jeff
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