Casein and egg tempera

[jeff]

My question is to what extent can I mix ET and casein. I know that casein can be used for underpainting - and it is very good to that - but can I paint over ET with casein and generally intermingle the two?

jeff

[JeffG]

I have no experience with casein, but from what Ive heard, i see no reason why it couldnt be layered with ET.

My big question is why would you want to? Not being a wise guy, just genuinely curious. I always considered ET and casein to have nearly identical handling techniques and they provide the same effects.

[jeff]

Jeff, I haven't used casein much but it is somewhat different to ET. It doesn't make such a beautiful glaze in thin layers. It drys much more waterproof more quickly so that it can be painted over almost straightaway without lifting. I'm not sure yet about of it's effect on colour, but casein is good for reworking and developing a picture, while ET finishes it. Yesterday I did a portrait head in about an hour and a half start to finish using casein then ET - so its a fast and complimentary combination. I just have an urge to be able to mix them and continue reworking more easily, but I'm usure about the adhesion of casein on top of ET.
Hope that explains it.

jeff B

[dbclemons]

You should have no problem with casein over egg. Milk and eggs are a tasty combination, maybe some toast and coffee too? ;) I've painted with casein over a mix of casein and egg, but not over egg tempera alone. The egg helps keep the bottom layer from lifting when adding new paint, but takes a day or so to set properly. Just using a soft touch is with undiluted paint is often faster.

[jeff]

I was sort of thinking that I might be able to return to some of the propoerties of casein by painting over the ET, David, but I guess you are pointing out the obvious that it will still be largely dictated by the underlying ET layers. So if they are not dry enough then I'll have to take as much care as using ET in any case with future layers.

It is all rather like cooking isn't it? I heard yesterday of someone local who made casein with yoghurt and honey - apparently quite a successful artist. He also calls it kay-see-in while I call it kay-seen.

jeff