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Old 20-06-08, 03:55 PM
gainor gainor is offline
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Question Lapis Lazuli questions

I bought some Lapis...it was pretty expensive, for me, at around $80. It was a huge disappointment because it was not really blue and it was so gritty it was unusable. It was not from Afghanistan but from Chile. I ground and ground it to no avail. Do any of you have experiences with Lapis? Do I have to spend $280 for a tiny amount to get usable pigment that is the true blue? I'm wondering if there is anything I can do with the blue/grey grit I got. Any thoughts? Thanks
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Old 20-06-08, 11:03 PM
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Salamander Salamander is offline
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Honestly I just use Daniel Smith's Genuine Lapis watercolour. No grinding, nice colour. they even sent me a replacement tube when the first tube I received was too grey.
einoside
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Old 21-06-08, 02:27 PM
gainor gainor is offline
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Default great idea!

Do you mix in the egg as you would if you were using plain pigments? I know DS Lapis Watercolor but didn't think it was a good idea to mix watercolors in with "pure" pigments. I guess you can do it successfully with no problems. Thanks for the idea.
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Old 21-06-08, 05:25 PM
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Actually, using watercolor with egg isn't a good idea. I wrote to Art Graham of M. Graham paint and asked that very same question. He told me that the gum arabic and other additives made watercolor unsuitable to use in egg tempera painting. I got a tiny amount of a beautifully blue Lapis from Natural Pigments and it was ground very fine indeed.

There are times when I think using tubes of watercolor would sure make things easier though! I probably will eventually try it since I have so much watercolor paint.
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Old 22-06-08, 02:00 AM
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The worst trouble I think with watercolour is that the gums change the colour saturation. The colour effect of watercolour is much duller than ET and mixing the two is likely to ruin the much more pastel like colour effect of ET.
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Old 22-06-08, 02:50 AM
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Some watercolors also contain things like honey which absorb humidity from the air. If it was a humid day, the paint would just...wipe off! Plus, honey remains soluble while egg yolk cures. It might not be a problem to use small amounts of watercolor as long as you are careful to use plenty of egg yolk medium. It seems to me that gouache might be a better solution than watercolor paint.
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Old 22-06-08, 12:09 PM
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jason_maranto jason_maranto is offline
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you could always decant the watercolor to remove the binder.

Best,
Jason.
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Old 22-06-08, 02:46 PM
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Actually there are many et recipes had gum arabic added. Neither the honey nor the gum seems problematic. The colors are quite brilliant though you may at times need to apply a couple more coats for opacity though this has never been an issue for me. I think you should try it out before over thinking it.
Basically I use 1/2 egg medium to 1/2 liquid watercolor and thin as needed. I use them as I would a dispersion.
e-in-o
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Old 24-06-08, 11:38 PM
gainor gainor is offline
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Default Decant watercolor?

Jason, Exactly how would you go about the mechanics of decanting the watercolor? Sounds like a good idea but probably not worth the effort. I guess the Lapis I have will be destined for the trash can, but I'd really love to try the real thing sometime. I saw the listing and picture in Natural Pigments but was nervous that I might get inferior quality again. I should have demanded my money back but it was a long time before I tried to use it and I thought I might be able to use it somehow. Since I live in Florida the humidity and honey might become an issue. Thanks for all the ideas.
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Old 25-06-08, 02:44 AM
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Stir the watercolor with a decent amount of water (maybe a cup or so) -- let that sit until all the pigment drops to the bottom , carefully pour off the water and add another cup and stir... repeat until the water poured off is pure.

It should take a couple of days but at the end you should have a pretty clean pigment (assuming they don't load the watercolor with fillers).

Best,
Jason.
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