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  #11  
Old 09-05-10, 04:13 PM
briancorll briancorll is offline
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Have a look here:
http://www.allbusiness.com/services/...4354566-1.html

I've started using PVA as a size on my canvas before applying acrylic gesso. When I started painting 43 years ago I used acrylic gesso under my oils. I still have many old paintings from that period and they are still in fine shape, even with 43-year-old gesso, cheap cotton canvas and cheap oil paint !
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  #12  
Old 09-05-10, 05:03 PM
VK VK is offline
(Ramesh Vyaghrapuri)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artistcb View Post
I just went through this site and I would like to point out the problems I had with glazing. The typical way of glazing thinly using oil medium and paint tends to have a *tinted* almost not-solid look. The mische technique gives a wonderful sense of space that is hard to achieve only by glazing like this and I find it more effective to glaze using the following method:

For the first few layers, I use very little medium. I brush a little paint onto my palm and press and rub the palm into the painting to spread the paint. I rub until I can no longer push the paint around (typically, my palm is slightly warm at this point). I repeat this to cover as much area as I need. This leaves an even very thin layer of paint that looks translucent only because it is layered thinly but this thinning isnt done with medium but rather by the way the paint is applied. I generally lift more paint off to model surfaces but using dry bristle brushes (wipe with the rag nearly constantly) again aiming to leave no strokes of any kind.

The above process is physically intensive but tends to make the painting opalescent contributing to a glowing sense of space. I tend to add a little more medium on the top layers which makes them more transparent (creates more saturation in the colors) and I use this layer to correct colors more than anything else. When using mediums, I first scrub the medium on using bristle brushes and erase them out with rags which leaves a very thin layer of medium on the painting. Then I use the palm of my hands for spreading the paint though this time it goes on much more easily and more thinly enough that it is practically transparent.

The above steps are also clean with respect to the fat vs lean as the medium I use is linseed oil, occasionally modified with non-alkyd based driers. If you use liquin or alkyd mediums, I am not sure how the fat vs lean works, so please disregard the above approach then.

If you are dealing with toxic paints, you can scrub with *dry* bristle brushes as well. It works better for smaller sized paintings.
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  #13  
Old 09-05-10, 07:29 PM
artistcb artistcb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VK View Post
I just went through this site and I would like to point out the problems I had with glazing. The typical way of glazing thinly using oil medium and paint tends to have a *tinted* almost not-solid look. The mische technique gives a wonderful sense of space that is hard to achieve only by glazing like this and I find it more effective to glaze using the following method:

For the first few layers, I use very little medium. I brush a little paint onto my palm and press and rub the palm into the painting to spread the paint. I rub until I can no longer push the paint around (typically, my palm is slightly warm at this point). I repeat this to cover as much area as I need. This leaves an even very thin layer of paint that looks translucent only because it is layered thinly but this thinning isnt done with medium but rather by the way the paint is applied. I generally lift more paint off to model surfaces but using dry bristle brushes (wipe with the rag nearly constantly) again aiming to leave no strokes of any kind.

The above process is physically intensive but tends to make the painting opalescent contributing to a glowing sense of space. I tend to add a little more medium on the top layers which makes them more transparent (creates more saturation in the colors) and I use this layer to correct colors more than anything else. When using mediums, I first scrub the medium on using bristle brushes and erase them out with rags which leaves a very thin layer of medium on the painting. Then I use the palm of my hands for spreading the paint though this time it goes on much more easily and more thinly enough that it is practically transparent.

The above steps are also clean with respect to the fat vs lean as the medium I use is linseed oil, occasionally modified with non-alkyd based driers. If you use liquin or alkyd mediums, I am not sure how the fat vs lean works, so please disregard the above approach then.

If you are dealing with toxic paints, you can scrub with *dry* bristle brushes as well. It works better for smaller sized paintings.
I am also utilizing information from this site:

http://www.brigidmarlin.com/Pages/Mische.html

As anyone knows that is trying to figure out the Mische method on their own, it is confusing because it seems there are many different ways that are individually employed by each artist yet they are all somewhat similar. If I could, I would rather be taught by someone hands-on but that is not possible at this time in my life so I am at the mercy of those who are willing to try to explain it to me.

I need to paint a painting rather quickly, so for the first go round I want to use parts of the quick drying technique which was the first link I provided....thus the Plaka. To my understanding, Plaka dries quicker than the white egg tempera and the next layer of glaze will not "melt" it like it would the white egg tempera if it were not completely dry. Plaka is apparently widely used and acceptable for this method although not traditional. After this particular painting is done I will attempt the more traditional and proper way.

On this site: (http://www.brigidmarlin.com/Pages/Mische.html),
there is no mention of anything, RSG, matte spray fixative etc., on the gesso before laying on the first oil imprimatura. It goes straight to the oil paint. But this is not the "quick dry method". Perhaps the oil imprimatura would also take longer to dry without some sort of "seal" over the gesso.
In any event, I think the idea of a layer of egg tempera medium as the sealant could be a good idea in place of the spray fixative. I will try a portion of my practice panel in each way and record the results.

Ramesh, when you say to spray the egg tempera medium, will it be okay to use the medium I will be preparing to use throughout the painting or what should I use? Here is the recipe from Brigid Marlin's site that I want to use:
"First, the egg medium must be made. Into a clean jar, crack a fresh egg. Add an equal amount of painting medium (half linseed oil, half damar varnish) then add water to the amount of both of these combined." Also how do you measure this accurately?

Also, Ramesh, what do you think about using your spray method (I'll call this The "VK" for "very kool" Spray Method" from now on lol!) during this point of Brigid's tutorial? As follows:

"After the blue glaze is dry, you must put on the final over-all coat of egg tempera, remembering what has been said earlier about using the tempera as a refining process."

OR does she mean to just go all over the white tempera again?

Also, if you noticed she uses the palm application too. I suppose this wouldn't work as well with gloves on. Are any of the oil colors she uses too toxic to apply in this manner? They are:
Cad Yellow or Lemon Yellow--I have Cad
Cerulean, Ultramarine or Cobalt Blue-I want to use Cerulean

Can you give me a widely available example/brand of a "non-alklyd based drier" that I could buy in a store?

Thank you, all of your suggestions are going to come in very useful.
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  #14  
Old 09-05-10, 10:11 PM
VK VK is offline
(Ramesh Vyaghrapuri)
 
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Lots of questions, so I will make separate posts. I hope others with more experience chime in and correct me if there is something wrong with my approach as well (I learnt this technique by reading various online sites, reasoning it out myself and experimenting, so I could very well be wrong though I have paintings 10 years old with nothing wrong other than being badly painted).

That disclaimer out, I will split this into the wet mische technique and the dry one (they have slightly different issues and I am also more familiar with the wet method).

The wet method involves embedding egg tempera in a wet layer of oil glaze. This egg tempera actually feels suspended in the oil and it doesnt seem like it needs to dry beyond the surface water evaporation, so you are going to be bound by the time the oil glaze takes to dry than the egg layer. That said, I suspect that the egg layer will still cure (water vapour is insidious and likely will pass through oil the wet oil over probably a longer period of time).

With the dry method, it is typical to use an oil-egg emulsion that is painted on top of dry oil glaze layers. The reason to incorporate the oil is that oil bonds better with the oil layer below but I have successfully used very thin layers of egg-only medium and I doubt there is any problem with this (the successive layers of oil glazes sandwich the egg layer and keep it nicely suspended). It is much tougher to get egg-only mediums to go on an alkyd-based glaze layer as the surface is very slick and things bead up. Adding as little of the oil into your egg medium as you can to avoid beading up, will solve this particular problem at the cost of taking a bit longer to dry (more oil in the egg medium will make the layer a bit fragile for surface manipulation, esp if you do glazing like I do with the palm of my hands. Even with oil, I never have to wait more than 4-5 hours -- the egg-oil emulsion seems to set well).

So, in both cases, you are limited by the drying time of the oil layer than anything else. I have used cobalt and other heavy-metal driers but these are generally not recommended conservation-wise. Also, pure paint dries much faster than one using oily mediums with the exception that addition of very small amounts of appropriate alkyd mediums promotes fast drying. But these form such a slick film that I feel the subsequent layers will not bond together without retouch varnishes and at this point I get lost in the amount of different materials in my painting.

An alternate to making the oil layer dry faster is to use CMC (aka "amber gel" -- thanks to dbclemons for a nice write up on using this will oil paints). This is essentially a powder that you can add to water to form a nice gel that you can then use to dilute your paints (essentially, this is compatible with oil but reduces the oil content of your oil layer). I have not used this in mische techniques, so I do not know if there are other sideeffects with this scheme and while the paint mixed with a small amount of CMC gets surface dry really fast, I feel like it still needs a couple of days to truly dry enough to overpaint. I would suggest you execute a few *slow* paintings to get the hang of the effect before venturing into this territory -- atleast that way you know how it is supposed to work and look like.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-10, 10:30 PM
VK VK is offline
(Ramesh Vyaghrapuri)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artistcb View Post
I am also utilizing information from this site:

http://www.brigidmarlin.com/Pages/Mische.html
On this site: (http://www.brigidmarlin.com/Pages/Mische.html),
there is no mention of anything, RSG, matte spray fixative etc., on the gesso before laying on the first oil imprimatura. It goes straight to the oil paint. But this is not the "quick dry method". Perhaps the oil imprimatura would also take longer to dry without some sort of "seal" over the gesso.
In any event, I think the idea of a layer of egg tempera medium as the sealant could be a good idea in place of the spray fixative. I will try a portion of my practice panel in each way and record the results.
No, the imprimatura actually dries faster without a sealed layer beneath as the oil in the glaze sinks into the gesso. No technical reason why the imprimatura needs to be on a sealed gesso (especially if you are using the oil medium that has linseed oil as this provides sufficient oil to make sure the pigments are not underbount) but note that using a medium is actually not something that i would advise, esp in the lower layers purely from the visual apearance of it -- for one thing, this is fatty and the glaze takes longer to dry and secondly, it is much harder to get a *translucent* (it is much better when the lower layers are not *transparent*) layer with a medium thinning the pigments too much (or if you manage to get enough pigment, then it gets streaky somewhat). Also, the modeling of shapes by lifting colors off the imprimatura works best when the glaze layer is not thinned out too much. Atleast, in my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by artistcb View Post
Ramesh, when you say to spray the egg tempera medium, will it be okay to use the medium I will be preparing to use throughout the painting or what should I use? Here is the recipe from Brigid Marlin's site that I want to use:
"First, the egg medium must be made. Into a clean jar, crack a fresh egg. Add an equal amount of painting medium (half linseed oil, half damar varnish) then add water to the amount of both of these combined." Also how do you measure this accurately?
I always used only egg yolk + water but thinned quite a bit (almost 1:4) for the spraying part. I basically thinned it enough till my spray bottle produced a nice spray.. In this particular case, since this is only meant to seal the gesso part, there is no reason to add the oil + damar to complicate things. As mentioned, I have managed to use pure egg tempera (without oil + damar) for the intermediate layers too but maybe the stars were aligned better as I have never had much beading to worry about (or maybe the fact that I preferentially use bristle brushes for everything somehow is involved here). But I have also successfully painted egg+oil emulsions on top of oil glazes (but not in the detailed mische manner) and never ran into any problems with this either. The reason to add the oil is it sticks better to the slick oil glaze and the reason to add the damar is to make the oil content in the medium dry faster.

Another tip: leave you egg tempera layer out in the sun -- it cures faster for some reason.
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  #16  
Old 09-05-10, 11:02 PM
VK VK is offline
(Ramesh Vyaghrapuri)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artistcb View Post
Also, Ramesh, what do you think about using your spray method (I'll call this The "VK" for "very kool" Spray Method" from now on lol!) during this point of Brigid's tutorial? As follows:

"After the blue glaze is dry, you must put on the final over-all coat of egg tempera, remembering what has been said earlier about using the tempera as a refining process."

OR does she mean to just go all over the white tempera again?
She means the latter -- you shouldn't spray egg tempera with pigment unless that is a specifc effect you wanted. The page doesnt make one thing clear -- you will get a dead gray if each layer of color goes exactly at the same place (for example, if you strenghten the whites in all the layers the exact same way, it will look very dead). You will need to make sure you are varying what you do in each layer to take full advantage of the mechanism. One trick to illustrate this (I wished I had learned this earlier):

1. When you have the edge of a face (skin) with a cool background that is somewhat further away (like the sky), you should leave a little bit of the yellow layer more pronounced outside the face (sort of like a halo) and a lot of the read layer the same way. What this would do is make a light golden/red halo outside the face. It will look like the face is glowing but very hard to spot why (works exactly like the optical reds used extensively in oil portraits). This is only for skin areas that are adjacent to surfaces that are way behind and somewhat cooler (and when the background is darker, it works better but needs more fine control).

2. You can use two ways to lighten areas: mid-tonal areas and soft edges should be lightened by lifting off the glazes (at each layer). Hard edges and very light areas can be lightened using egg tempera at each layer. But when using the egg tempera, do not copy the strokes from below -- this causes some weird textures and an unpleasant sculputural effect. You are better off putting down the tempera along the contours in one layer and across in the next. This also makes the colors come through nicely (basically, the glaze layer will sit in the valley between these tempera marks which makes the paint appear thicker than it is but also ends up bringing that part forward in the picture plane)

Quote:
Also, if you noticed she uses the palm application too. I suppose this wouldn't work as well with gloves on. Are any of the oil colors she uses too toxic to apply in this manner? They are:
Cad Yellow or Lemon Yellow--I have Cad
Cerulean, Ultramarine or Cobalt Blue-I want to use Cerulean
I actually learnt the palm method from this site :-) Though, I dont use mediums much.

Cadmiums and cobalts are considered toxic though I am not sure if this is through skin contact.

Sorry, I don't know about the toxicity stuff very well though if you search for toxic pigments someone (Alessandra?) had posted wonderful data about the pigments and their toxicity.

Unfortunately, the palm method does not work with gloves and actually it is worse with gloves (have tried it). For small paintings (about 11x14), I have succesfully used bristle brushes to scrub a very thin layer of paint around (without using any medium) and then used more dry bristle brushes till it was even and finally used a scrunched up paper ball wrapped by a clean rag to lighten.

Hope this helps but please take everything I say with a grain of salt and try it youself. There are too many variables with this method (which is probably why there are so many variations).
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  #17  
Old 10-05-10, 10:00 AM
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EllenT EllenT is offline
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VK, thank you very much for posting all your information and experience. Since I have used the mixed approach in a different way - not out of intention but rather from receiving a few basics long ago (from a different lineage) and years of experimentation on my own, really before the internet - I wouldn't post details here that might confuse a beginner. So artistcb - go for it.

VK, you mention a few principles that I can underline. Yes, fat over lean is basic. Generally the progression is from opacity to translucency. So the early layers need to have enough body from lean, opaque pigments. But this can also apply to shadow work even in the later stages: you will have to see for yourself.

As far as glazing goes, I have always brushed on a pigment diluted with medium (turps, damar, stand oil, 1 to 1) and then wiped it off (diligently) with a lint free rag. Yes, painting time for that level is determined by the drying time of the medium, max 6-8 hours, but I usually complete my work in about 2 - 4. Next working session is a few days later - at least. The damar varnish and stand oil are siccative ingredients (relatively).

Yes, it is important to develop the chiarascuro differently on each color level. In that way you make use of the chromatic effects of layering.

Once you begin working in layers, you will find that it does not take much to push back or pull forward a color, a shape or a line - once it has been established. If it has not been established, then it still can be created, but then the effect will not be as strong. The most difficult thing is pentimento - changing your mind later in a definitive way. Sometimes it is simply better to start over.
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  #18  
Old 10-05-10, 01:50 PM
artistcb artistcb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VK View Post
Hope this helps but please take everything I say with a grain of salt and try it youself. There are too many variables with this method (which is probably why there are so many variations).
Ramesh, Thank you for your detailed responses and all the great tips in this post, I greatly appreciate them. Also, please forgive me where I may be getting confused and not understanding you properly as I sort things out below. I think my mind is getting jumbled and I'm sure my ignorance will be apparent! I want to ask you about the following statements:

RE: Your post on Page 1 referring to sealing the gesso surface:

"The basic problem is that the unsealed gesso surface is too absorbent and any oil paint glazed over it will end up with a lot of the oil sinking into the surface and leaving the pigment underbound (not to mention that the oil paint handles badly on such an absorbent surface)."

RE: Post Page 2:
"the imprimatura actually dries faster without a sealed layer beneath as the oil in the glaze sinks into the gesso. No technical reason why the imprimatura needs to be on a sealed gesso"

and....

"I always used only egg yolk + water but thinned quite a bit (almost 1:4) for the spraying part. I basically thinned it enough till my spray bottle produced a nice spray.. In this particular case, since this is only meant to seal the gesso part, there is no reason to add the oil + damar to complicate things."
------------------------------------------------
It seems to me in the first statement you are saying that you should put a seal on the raw gesso surface before doing the imprimatura because otherwise the oil will sink in and handle poorly (not sure what you meant by "underbount").

Then, in the second statement, it seems that you are saying that it is okay to put the imprimatura on the raw gesso surface (as shown on Brigid Marlin's site).

So, here I thought we discussed using "The VK Spray Method" over the raw gesso as a sealant before doing the imprimatura. Now I am understanding (probably misunderstanding!) you to say that is not necessary to do the sealant and that it is okay to put on the oil paint straight on the raw gesso for the imprimatura and that it would be better to not use the oil paint in conjunction with the medium for this lowest layer.

After the imprimatura layer and for the subsequent layers don't thin out the glazes with too much medium if any at all. This is helpful if you desire to lift color off.

If I were to try the method today and I am properly understanding all parts of what we have discussed (along with bits from Brigid Marlin's site) below is the procedure that I would follow. Please make corrections where I may be misunderstanding. (This would be for a fast drying method.)

  • Seal raw gesso surface with "The VK Spray Method"
  • OR Don't Seal the Gesso with anything
  • Prepare drawing and transfer to gessoed panel in India Ink
  • Apply Red Imprimatura without adding any medium aiming to achieve a "translucent" application, patting with the fatty palm of your hand to even out paint.
  • Let Dry
  • Use white tempera (or in this case Plaka) to begin the "sculpting" of the painting by bringing up the highlights. Conduct selective paint removal of the red imprimatura along with the adding of white tempera until it basically looks like a red and white picture.
  • Let Dry
  • Apply yellow glaze with the fatty palm of your hand, wiping paint off your hand and blending and lifting color until this layer appears translucent.
  • This glaze could have a bit of medium added to it but is not necessary????
  • Let Dry
  • Apply more white tempera (in this case Plaka) to build more highlights and enhance sculpting of the image.
  • Let Dry
  • Apply blue glaze with the fatty palm of your hand, wiping paint off your hand and blending and lifting color until this layer appears translucent.
  • This glaze could have a bit more medium added to it but is not necessary????
  • Let Dry
  • Apply more white tempera (in this case Plaka) to build more highlights and further enhance sculpting of the image.
  • Let Dry
  • Color is next? Or do I have to put something over these layers?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
ADD COLOR- I'll leave this part alone for now since I don't want to complicate the subject we are on at this point.

My pigments arrive tomorrow....yay! I will have to go out and get some bristle brushes along with a few other supplies I still need. I'm so excited to actually try all of this hands-on!
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  #19  
Old 10-05-10, 06:12 PM
VK VK is offline
(Ramesh Vyaghrapuri)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artistcb View Post
It seems to me in the first statement you are saying that you should put a seal on the raw gesso surface before doing the imprimatura because otherwise the oil will sink in and handle poorly (not sure what you meant by "underbount").

Then, in the second statement, it seems that you are saying that it is okay to put the imprimatura on the raw gesso surface (as shown on Brigid Marlin's site).

So, here I thought we discussed using "The VK Spray Method" over the raw gesso as a sealant before doing the imprimatura. Now I am understanding (probably misunderstanding!) you to say that is not necessary to do the sealant and that it is okay to put on the oil paint straight on the raw gesso for the imprimatura and that it would be better to not use the oil paint in conjunction with the medium for this lowest layer.
Sorry for the confusion, I will split out the statements more clearly:

1. Sealing a traditional gesso surface is not absolutely required for putting down an oil glaze.
2. The first few layers of a painting should have less oil than the later layers (lean vs fat)
3. I prefer doing the first oil glaze with no medium but just paint as this allows me to add more layers later.
4. If there is very little medium at the start in the first layer, it is harder to do the glaze on unsealed gesso as the gesso sucks up even the little oil that is there in the paint. There is no lubricant and pushing the paint around gets difficult. It is still possible but I find this unpleasant.
5. So, I prefer to seal first. But if you are starting with damar+oil, there is so much oil in the first glaze that you can just as well go directly on the gesso surface. There will be a difference in handling still but it is not too difficult to deal with this.

As an aside, if you are comfortable using alkyds or acrylics (which a lot of conservation people are ok with but they havent been long enough to know how long they will last) and if you are going to do an oil imprimatura before the first egg layer, you can start with a panel that has been primed using acrylics (nearly most panels in the stores today). They do not need to be sealed as they are not quite as absorbent as traditional panels anyway. Also, alkyd mediums are supposedly fast drying.

Quote:
After the imprimatura layer and for the subsequent layers don't thin out the glazes with too much medium if any at all. This is helpful if you desire to lift color off.
A more accurate statement is each oil glaze layer should have more oil in it than the previous oil glaze layer. Which is why I start with no medium at all. In reality, I do not believe this rule is as significant for rigid panels, but I do this also because of the optical effects.

Quote:
  • Seal raw gesso surface with "The VK Spray Method"
  • OR Don't Seal the Gesso with anything
  • Prepare drawing and transfer to gessoed panel in India Ink
  • Apply Red Imprimatura without adding any medium aiming to achieve a "translucent" application, patting with the fatty palm of your hand to even out paint.
  • Let Dry
  • Use white tempera (or in this case Plaka) to begin the "sculpting" of the painting by bringing up the highlights. Conduct selective paint removal of the red imprimatura along with the adding of white tempera until it basically looks like a red and white picture.
  • Let Dry
  • Apply yellow glaze with the fatty palm of your hand, wiping paint off your hand and blending and lifting color until this layer appears translucent.
  • This glaze could have a bit of medium added to it but is not necessary????
  • Let Dry
  • Apply more white tempera (in this case Plaka) to build more highlights and enhance sculpting of the image.
  • Let Dry
  • Apply blue glaze with the fatty palm of your hand, wiping paint off your hand and blending and lifting color until this layer appears translucent.
  • This glaze could have a bit more medium added to it but is not necessary????
  • Let Dry
  • Apply more white tempera (in this case Plaka) to build more highlights and further enhance sculpting of the image.
  • Let Dry
  • Color is next? Or do I have to put something over these layers?
.

Here are the corrections:

1. If you want to do the egg-medium spray, then make sure the ink drawing has already been done. I am unsure how well the ink will adhere to egg, so better to do it after the ink has been laid down.
2. In the step where you are adding the white tempera, you cannot lift any red paints. So, the only way to sulpt is by adding white (just clarifying. this is not a problem).
3. The yellow should probably have a little bit of medium with it (simply because most yellow colors look better when they are transparent). Same with blue (esp the blue suggested by brigit)

Otherwise, it looks good to me. All this talk about this technique makes me want to get back to this.. :-)
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  #20  
Old 10-05-10, 06:34 PM
VK VK is offline
(Ramesh Vyaghrapuri)
 
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[QUOTE=EllenT;5370]VK, thank you very much for posting all your information and experience. Since I have used the mixed approach in a different way - not out of intention but rather from receiving a few basics long ago (from a different lineage) and years of experimentation on my own, really before the internet - I wouldn't post details here that might confuse a beginner. So artistcb - go for it.
[QUOTE]

Nearly everything I learnt was from the web (including this great forum) and own experimentation. But, it is very likely I am wrong or I misunderstood something. Please feel free to correct me (especially if an effect will be lost with the approach I have). I am also very curious to know of other ways to do things, so if you have the time, I would appreciate any information you can provide.

In particular, you mentioned alcasit (which is a form of cellulose). I have tried CMC which is nearly the same thing but I use this mainly for a fast and lean underpainting. Have you painted a full glaze layer using this medium? If so, do you mix it with the paints (like I do) or do you just put down a thin layer of this medium like for other glazes?

Quote:
As far as glazing goes, I have always brushed on a pigment diluted with medium (turps, damar, stand oil, 1 to 1) and then wiped it off (diligently) with a lint free rag. Yes, painting time for that level is determined by the drying time of the medium, max 6-8 hours, but I usually complete my work in about 2 - 4. Next working session is a few days later - at least. The damar varnish and stand oil are siccative ingredients (relatively).
When I used damar+stand+turps -- I always had to wait for 5 days atleast. Either I was shortchanged (maybe they used less damar) or I couldn't get enough of the medium out.

Quote:
Once you begin working in layers, you will find that it does not take much to push back or pull forward a color, a shape or a line - once it has been established. If it has not been established, then it still can be created, but then the effect will not be as strong. The most difficult thing is pentimento - changing your mind later in a definitive way. Sometimes it is simply better to start over.
This was the most difficult part for me. I have since had a lot more experience glazing with water colors using limited palettes that I feel I may be better equipped to try this technique now.
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