wooden block dipped in water

[sabine]

hi again :grin:

I just tried the "wooden block dipped in water technique for my gesso panels, but it made my pannels turn brown... :-?
Any idea of what I did wrong this time?

I let the wooden block into water so I hope that it will loose its pigmentation and that I will be able to use it later but I'm not sure that will be enough...

Sabine

[David McKay]

Hi Sabine:

I hope, and suspect, that the brown colour is from the wooden block. I don't know what kind of wood that Phil uses but I am sure that the colour from some woods would leach out. More seriously, if you have eaten away too much gesso you may be seeing the wood or masonite panel through the resulting too thin layer of gesso!

I recently have used a metal scraper for smoothing down the gesso surface. It works pretty good. David

[sabine]

a metal scrapper? What IS that?

I let the wood in the water all night long and the water is quite brown too now... I think I will try it again...

Do you think it's OK if I just put on an other layer of gesso to make the colour fade?

[David McKay]

Hi Sabine:

First, the easy answer...... a scraper is a piece of metal that cabinet makers sometimes use to smooth wood. It is better than sandpaper because it does not tear the wood fibers as sandpaper does. It gives a result similar to a wood plane. They are of different sizes but usually about three inches by six inches. You can find them in a hardware store. You also need a hard steel that you rub (with quite a bit of pressure) along the edge to make a burr or slight hook on the scraper.

The answer to your question about another layer of gesso is not so straight forward. When I gesso, I apply at least five coats (usually seven or eight) without the previous coats completely drying. In other words all the layers of gesso dry together as one thick layer. I would imagine however, that if you sanded your panel with a course sandpaper and then applied another coat of gesso you would have no problems with the latter coat adhering. But you may have the brown stuff bleeding through and it may bleed through the painting as well. Why not give it a sanding and see if the brown color comes off. It might be just on the surface. If not you may have to take most of, or all of, the gesso off and start again to be safe and sure. Good luck, David

[sabine]

Thanks for your answer Davidn even though it's not the one I was hoping for... Take all may gesso off, wooomph! :oops: I hope sand it a little will be enough... I'll try and let you know.

For the metal scrapper I didn't understand all the words, but with a little help from my friends the specialised dictionnaries on the internet I'm sure I'll be all right :lol:

thanks again

Sabine

[Alessandra Kelley]

A "metal scraper" is also called a "slice".

I use a baker's slice, made for bread dough. It is not as sharp as a carpenter's scraper, but it does the job for my needs. It is like a very large, flat palette knife or cleaver blade.

When I gesso, I sometimes let the layer dry completely before putting on the next layer. It's so I can sand smooth between coats -- you cannot sand damp gesso. I have not had problems with that technique, no cracks or anything.

[Bill Rietveldt]

In the video about egg tempera, "Breaking Eggs Making Paint", Hilton Brown uses a glass slide from a microsope as a scraper to smooth gesso.

I've successfully used glass pieces both flat edged and shaped to smooth wood work. A sculptor from Spain convinced me that it works better than a metal scraper - plus you don't have to worry about putting a burr on the edge!

I find that a piece of glass with a straight edge works great for smoothing panels. If you round the corners of the glass you're less likely to gouge the panels - and use gloves so you don't get cut.

[Alessandra Kelley]

My husband has reminded me that a "pastry scraper" can also work as a "metal scraper".

Pastry scrapers are used to scrape soft dough off a pastry board, and I am reasonably sure they can be found in Belgium.

[Dennis H]

Here's a picture of a scraper I use. I got it from a gold leaf supplier in New York, but it's German-made. (The 35mm slide is included just for scale.)
Dennis
http://www.dennisharper.com/Images/scraper.jpg

[sabine]

Thanks for all those answers!! I can see ther is quite a diversity of practices :grin:

and thanks so much for the picture, so much easier to understand than words! But I'm not sure I would be able to use that tool without damaging my gesso... Anyway I can give it a try, I've got a metal scrapper already, in fact!

the glass method appeals to me more, but I gave an other try to the wooden block, and after 2 days and 2 nights spent into water it seems to have lost all its colour and be harmless... now!

Anyway, it's wonderfull being able to have advices and comments on thoses matters... (when I say tempera, people usually go :shock: and I'm doiing it all by myself with a few books and advices found on the internet... but sometimes it just isn't enough!!)

good night (or wathever... )

Sabine

[Bert Congdon]

When I saw him use microscope slides on "Breaking Eggs.....",I thought it was a good idea, so I bought a package of 72 from Edmond Scientific for what seemed to me very little money.

[David McKay]

Bill, I don't know why I have never thought of using glass on gessoed panels as I have used it on wood in the past. In fact, I am always cutting up glass (left over from framing watercolours) into smaller pieces just so they will conveniently fit into the waste can. I will give this a try on my next panel. Thanks, David

[sabine]

Hi again!

So, I did sand the panel a little (which didn't make the brown go) and then applied 2 more coats of gesso and it got all white and fine.

THEN I tried again on a corner with my wooden block that I thought had lost all its colour, BUT it still made my panel brpown (much less, but still a little...)

SO I went back to sanding paper... enough with experimentations for me this time... If Phil come by, maybe you could tell me WHICH wood you do use?

Sabine[/i][/u]

[Bert Congdon]

Sabine, would like to tell us what kind of wood you are using?
Bert

[sabine]

hi, glad to see that the forum is back and OK!

the wood is an exotic wood, "Ipé" or "bankarai", a kind of reddish dark brown... it had just the right size...

[Bert Congdon]

May be the right size, but I will bet it will bleed tannin brom now on. You could brobably make ink from that wood. One thing I would never do is seal it. I have never found any kind of sealer that hide glue would stick to. I would sooner find a piece of poplar the right size. As a light colored hardwood, it won't give up anything that will hurt you. As for me, I always glue canvas to the wood before I gesso.

[sabine]

thanks for the advice. I'll try to find poplar, then...

[David McKay]

I am a little confused with the last few posts. Sabine, is the wood that you are talking about the wood of your panel, or the wooden block that you are using to smooth the panel???? David

[sabine]

it's the wood I'm using to smooth the panel...

I got a little confused too but my engliqh isn't good enough to get out of this kind of confusion on the internet... :lol:

[Bert Congdon]

I'm sorry. I was certainly confused. I thought it was what you were gessoing on. Sabine, if your English is not perfect, you are still way ahead of me. You know at least two languages. I know only one.

[RobM]

Il prend un Européen pour confondre un Américain :!: :grin:

A quick edit, just read that Brussels is the bi-lingual capital of Belgium (Bert, Sabine could well speak 3 or more languages). Anyway as a half Dutch person will just add
Het neemt een Europeaan om een Amerikaan te verwarren :!: :grin:

Sabine you are doing fine.

[sabine]

I do speak 3 langages (french, english and spannish), but my Dutch is very bad, shame on me :oops: ....

You're right Rob, in Brussel people speaking fluently 3 or 4 langages are quite common...

[PhilS]

Hi Sabine,
Sorry for not replying sooner. Our house has been under construction, we have had a steady stream of visitors, our cars are taking turns breaking down in creative ways, etc. (If I could speak 3 languages, it would probably be words I couldn't print here...) Anyway, I haven't been on the computer much...
The wooden block I use is a piece of maple 2 inches square that one of my students gave me. Before that I used a block of pine, but it disintegrated after a while. I never had any discoloration from either one.
The only problem I have had is with the rabbitskin glue in my last batch of gesso. Some of it absolutely refused to dissolve, leaving little brown specks in the surface. They actually kind of disappeared when I smoothed with my block and don't seem to affect my painting so I'm not going to worry about it.
With egg tempera, there is always something.
Adios, ciao, au revoir, etc.
Phil

[sabine]

Not forgetting Tot ziens and hasta luego :lol: (be careful with cars)

[JohnH]

Phil, it's funny (or maybe not) that I recently ran into the same not-completely-dissolving glue! Years ago I bought 3 containers of glue that once I found was perfect for my gesso... but when I went to use some from the last full container it refused to make a perfect solution! Soaking it overnight and heating it forever it seems would not make all the glue dissolve! I'm wondering what happened to it in storage? I now have to hunt for a new supply.

I was given a nice block of rock maple and though it worked perfect in smoothing my gesso it did yellow it :-( ...maybe I should try and find just regular maple?