Mixing ET colors

[raphaelarts]

Hi everyone.

I wanted to know what is the proper way to physically mix colors after they are tempered in ET. Is this done with a spatula over a (glass) palette or is it done with the brush? Is the porcelan plate with the depressions I see online simply used to hold the paints after they are mixed.

I am used to mix colors on my glass palette in oil and was wondering if it is the same for tempera or if the process is different.

Is a glass palette acceptable to mix and hold tempera colors?

Thank you.
R

[mark]

do u mean from tubed ET or raw pigment?i having only used the raw pig/mix the powders before i add water then add more if needed before i add the egg mix iv never used anything but little glass shot glasses to mix in and use. now if this doesnt sound right i too would like some feed back

[raphaelarts]

Hi Mark...I am referring to after each pigment has been mixed with the egg/water medium and made into a paint. How do I mix paints with one another to obtain new tints, etc? Is the process similar to mixing oil paints, where paints are mixed out on the palette with a spatula ?

Why use porcelan trays to hold the final mixtures?

Thanks,
R

[mark]

got ya in never done that because it dries so fast that there is no time for mixing the paint like u would oil unless u make the egg oil tempera then you got more time to play with the paint you can mix the paint by glazing did that help at all. the por/ dishes are there to mix the paint after they are made my paint is to runny to mix on a palette

[JeanM]

The reason I like using the porcelain cups and/or a pallette with little wells is because the tempered color mixture dries out quickly if spread on a pallette. And the mixture, once dried out, doesn't react well to re-wetting. Your mixtures will keep longer in little recepticles. I hope that helps you.

[raphaelarts]

Thanks for the reply. So let me understand this.

I understand that the porcelan vessels would hold the ready-mixed paints to reduce their drying time (compared to holding them on the palette).

But if the mixtures are not be made over a palette, how are they made in the vessels?

[raphaelarts]

Say I have egg tempera vermillion, yellow ochre and lead white and I want to mix out several flesh tints. All three colors are in my vessels.

How do I mix the hues carefully, in the proportions I want, if I cannot use a knife or a palette to do so?

Is mixing done before the pigment paste is tempered with medium, where the color paste is mixed?

[mark]

well i would take the lead white and 3 to 4 little cups or the palette that has the the little cups in it put the white in each and make each one a different tint and think of the as u would the oil paint instead of mixing flat on a board you are doing it in little cups from what i know the paint should be runny so it would not be ez to mix with a knife i use a stiff oil brush to mix the paint in the cups side note you should make the paste without the egg then you can get the color u want then add the egg

[raphaelarts]

OK...I see!!! Thank you Mark!!!

So the different pigment pastes are mixed out first in the vessels using a brush. Then once the required mixtures are made, they can get tempered with the medium. So, this is then the correct way of mixing ET colors....mix the hues in pigment paste form first...then temper them. Thank you!

This would also allow to make enough and store a specific mixture if I were to needed again.

[raphaelarts]

How does the standard ratio (1 pt pigment paste/1 pt ET medium) change when different pigments are mixed? The absorption rate of yellow ochre, I am thinking, would be lower than that of yellow ochre mixed with raw sienna and higher than yellow ochre and raw umber.

Also, what is the ratio of water and pigment that makes for a paste. If there is too much water in the paste, adding equal amount of medium would make for an over-bound paint.

[turlogh]

OK...I see!!! Thank you Mark!!!

So the different pigment pastes are mixed out first in the vessels using a brush. Then once the required mixtures are made, they can get tempered with the medium. So, this is then the correct way of mixing ET colors....mix the hues in pigment paste form first...then temper them. Thank you!

This would also allow to make enough and store a specific mixture if I were to needed again.
You can do it that way if you like. I have some jars of premixed pigment paste with pigments in blended mixtures I commonly use.

You can also mix paint that is already tempered. I use a ceramic or plastic palette with wells. When I want to mix two colors, I clean a brush in my rinse cup, then pick up an appropriate amount from a palette well with the brush and put it in a new well (if I will be using a lot) or in the mixing area at the center of the palette. To avoid dirtying my colors, I then rinse the brush again and add in another color of paint. I keep doing this until I have the desired color. Sometimes, I'll make slightly different colors at different ends of the mixing area and pull from those as I need them. I use a spray mister from time to time to keep mixtures moist and put a cover over the palette if I leave for a few minutes. If the mixture in the center of the palette gets too sticky, or if I am done with it, I wipe out the center with a paper towel and move on.

Egg tempera can be a flexible painting medium. As long as you are painting on a properly prepared rigid surface (traditional gesso, preferably), have your paints tempered with the right ratio of pigment to binder, and avoid painting in thick impasto blobs, you can mostly do whatever you want. There isn't any reason to think there is a "correct" or "incorrect" way to work (although some ways are more or less efficient).

[turlogh]

How does the standard ratio (1 pt pigment paste/1 pt ET medium) change when different pigments are mixed? The absorption rate of yellow ochre, I am thinking, would be lower than that of yellow ochre mixed with raw sienna and higher than yellow ochre and raw umber.
This is not an exact science, and there is a range of acceptable pigment to binder ratios that will make a workable paint. After a bit of experience, you have a sense of what works and what doesn't.

Also, what is the ratio of water and pigment that makes for a paste. If there is too much water in the paste, adding equal amount of medium would make for an over-bound paint.
Again, it's not that hard to learn this just by doing it. I keep pigment pastes in jars. I fill the jar about halfway with pigment, then to about two-thirds with water, then shake. Within a day, many pigments settle to the bottom with relatively clear water at the top. The pigment thereby makes its own ratio with water, which you learn to work with. If the pigment stays in solution, you learn how to work with that. Again, you have some leeway in terms of what will make viable paint.

Over time, you will naturally and easily develop an intuitive affinity for your materials. If you find yourself working with paint that's been tempered with too much yolk (it feels sticky), then add some pigment to the paint mixture and give the paint already applied time to dry. If you find yourself working with paint that's been tempered with too much pigment (so that it feels crumbly after it dries), then let it dry, apply some medium diluted with water thinly over it, let that dry, and continue painting. As you gain experience, both of those situations will happen less and less often.

[JeanM]

All the above advice is good. I would just add; don't over-think this. Experience will be your best teacher. Go for it.

[Bert Congdon]

Well said Jean and David.

[JeffG]

I just use an older brush (a brights works fine) to mix my colors in the paint wells.

I agree, dont overthink it. When reading about ET painting, the technique sounds quite precise and exact. But in practice, just playing and using whatever works and not worrying about exact procedures provides good results. More time to think about the painting itself.

[raphaelarts]

I want to thank everyone on the forum for replying to my questions. I appreciate the insight and understand the fact that experience will fill in the gap. I have done some work with pigments using an emulsion of gum and oil but have never had to deviate from my standard oil paints mixing process. After the colors were made into a paint with the emulsion I would mix them on the palette like I do with my oil paints.

This is something very new to me. So, thanks again for the insight. I am going to give it a go with grinding the pigments into a paste and storing them in jars and playing around with the mixing methods outlined in the thread.

[David McKay]

I realize that this may add some confusion and disagreement to the conversation, but just for the heck of it, here is what I do.

I do not premix my pigments with water. I use small glass bottles for mixing my paints and I paint from them. These little bottles once held small samples of jam/jelly etc. and are about an inch and a half high. They have metal covers which keeps the paint mixtures moist all day or for a couple of days if needed.

I place some pigment (typically about a quarter of a teaspoon) into a bottle then add water and egg yolk and stir with an old stiff brush. The idea is to get enough egg so as to make the paint have a slight sheen when it dries on the painting and enough water to make it handle as you want it to (more water for thinner glazes). Different pigments need more or less egg yolk to temper them so it is useless to have a "measurement" or proportion of water/egg/pigment because it varies with each pigment. The degree of gloss or sheen with which it dries is my indicator.

I usually have a number of little bottles with different colours of paint in them. When I want to mix a new colour, I simply pour from one bottle into another or use a brush to scoop some paint out. Once the paints have been temperred correctly then each new mixture of any combination of them will also be tempered correctly.

As has been said before.....experience is the teacher. It is surprisingly easy and you will find a method that works best for you.

Good luck, David

[Alessandra Kelley]

Huh. So you mix your pigments dry?

I have done projects where I needed carefully matched samples of color. For those I mix my wet pigments, but I don't add any egg. I generally have kept them in plastic ice cube trays covered with wet paper towels and plastic wrap. Then when I need a specific color, I scoop a little out onto my palette and add the egg medium etc.

It goes without saying that you NEVER use the ice cube trays for anything else.

[mark]

so if you keep them in icecube trays do you put them in the fridg or keep them on your table?

[David McKay]

Alessandra, I should have been clearer. When I said that I do not premix my pigments with water I meant that I do not grind nor store them in water. I did this at the beginning and found that several of them tended to mould. Personally I just do not see the advantage of keeping them under water. Also, when I need to match an exact colour I mix it up with water and egg, then paint a tiny bit of it on the panel/painting and see what colour it is after it dries.
David

[Alessandra Kelley]

I don't ever put paint in the refrigerator, but then my raised basement studio is plenty cold most of the time anyway. I just kept my tray next to the sink in my workspace.

David, I keep my pigments wet because the health risks of inhaling pigment dust are just too grim. I have had a few mold (all yellow ochres, oddly enough), but most are just fine.

[raphaelarts]

What is used to transfer the paste from the jars/grinding slab to the vessels. Using a spatula takes forever, so that's not the best way, especially if the paste is runny.

I have used a teaspoon to get the colors from the jars into the vessel and also to move around larger quantities of paste from vessel to vessel for mixing, wiping the spoon before dipping into a different color. Does that make sense? For smaller quantities and for quick mixtures I am using a brush.

Also the paste in the jar mixes with the excess water and the paste is watery but I am still adding equal amounts of egg medium to the past and the paint dries quick and well.

When I move up to the next layers and I want a less watery paste, what should I do? Wait for the excess water to evaporate?

[Alessandra Kelley]

Yes.