handling (literally) toxic pigments

[iconwriter77373]

Hello all;

I am new to this forum, and appreciate all the great information on it. I am an iconography student of several years and have been using the petit lac method for laying down initial layers of pigment. But I'm trying to learn alternatives, and I appreciate the clear information on the "Techniques" page of this site! Thanks!!!!!

One question: with earths or nontoxic ochres etc., I can see squeezing the brush between the fingers....but what do you do when you're using more toxic pigments? I don't have very many pigments that are toxic.... vermilion and malachite are the only two I really worry about..... but I am wondering if y'all use a different way of squeezing out that brush when you use toxic pigments?

Again, many thanks for this site. Very, very helpful!!! :grin:

Jan

[turlogh]

One question: with earths or nontoxic ochres etc., I can see squeezing the brush between the fingers....but what do you do when you're using more toxic pigments? I don't have very many pigments that are toxic.... vermilion and malachite are the only two I really worry about..... but I am wondering if y'all use a different way of squeezing out that brush when you use toxic pigments?
I don't know of any pigments that penetrate skin. If I have cuts on my hands, I wear gloves while painting. Other than that, I don't eat, drink, touch my face, lick my brush, etc. while painting. I wash very thoroughly with soap and water when I am done. With these precautions, I do not worry at all about getting paint on my hands.

If you can't bring yourself to get paint on your hands, wipe your brush on a lint-free cloth. It is less convenient for drybrushing, but is a workable alternative.

[Dennis H]

Hello Jan,
I keep a short stack of sheets of typing paper next to my palette. After charging the brush, I "discharge" the excess paint and shape the point with a few careful strokes on the paper. It works about as well as using your fingertips.
Dennis

[realgesso]

I don't know of any pigments that penetrate skin. The only one I know that will, at least according to the MSDS is vermillion (mercury sulfide). The cadmium colors, and lead compounds such as Naples yellow are pretty much only hazardous if inhaled or ingested.

[RobM]

I usually discharge my brush between my forefinger and the palette. That way you don't loose any paint on typing paper ( sounds like a costly excercise Dennis ! ) and only one finger gets dirty :!:

http://www.eggtempera.com/avatars/brushdischarge.jpg

[PhilS]

"Charging," "Discharging"... This sounds like a National Rifle Association website.
Dennis's method has the advantage that when he becomes famous, people will pay big bucks for those discarded typing paper sheets.
I've been "discharging" pigment through my fingers for twenty years. No obvious negative effects except that I'm writing posts like this.
Phil

[iconwriter77373]

Or a Society for the Study of Lightning....

I thought I remembered that vermillion is absorbed through the skin. When I clean my palettes after using it, I always get an old skanky brush that I just about only for this purpose to scrub it up, then wash the sink too afterward. Maybe I'm paranoid <chorus from family: yes she is!> but with health problems already, I'll do a paper towel or typing paper brushclean on at least the toxic stuff.

As I said, though, I keep toxic pigments to a minimum anyway. Thankfully, my children are too old to be tempted to eat the pretty red powder, and my dogs only like tubes of acrylic (although my cat watches for anytime I mix up Ivory Black....the idiot loves the stuff, cleans the palette from it. Yuck.) But my "studio" nowadays is about a quarter of a not-very-large bedroom, so obviously things like orpiment or lead white are not in my repertoire.....

Thanks, all. I'm having a blast experimenting at this. :grin:

Jan

[RobM]

Phil,
Dennis is famous. Only a famous person could wear a hat like the one Dennis wore in NYC last month!!

[Dennis H]

OK, OK. I'm digging all my discharge papers out of the trash bin. Might get a show at Tate Modern, where you can wear any old hat you please.
Rob, my one regret from the NY trip was that I didn't photograph you in any compromising outerwear.
Hmm. how to get this back on topic...?

There once was a tempera painter
Whose stroke went progressively fainter,
When after a dip
And a pinch on the tip;
If only on paper he'd laid 'er.

With apologies,
Dennis
(I do mean the brush...)

[peter kashur]

....but what do you do when you're using more toxic pigments? I don't have very many pigments that are toxic.... vermilion and malachite are the only two I really worry about..... but I am wondering if y'all use a different way of squeezing out that brush when you use toxic pigments?

Again, many thanks for this site. Very, very helpful!!! :grin:


...an ex tempera student of mine complained to a colleague that she believed her use of cadmiums was affecting her health...his reply to her was that 'it would be a noble death'...

peter (try hospital gloves.....)

[K. Lee]

Ny two cents from my freezing space, I mean studio . . .

I take my paint very seriously; I try to make or keep contact with my paint or on my clothes minimum. Heavy metals are very dangerous. I haven't made my own paints from dry pigment, but I'm pretty sure that the oil and ridges of one's skin would pick up dry pigment no matter how one careful one is. That said, I work with mostly oil paint. I purchased some creme from a reputable company which can be applied to help prevent or keep paint from contact on skin with a isolating barrier [that is the gist].

I used it once; I thought, I'm a purist and want my art to last [maybe just a hubris ass am I]. I try to be as clean as possible to keep my paint alive. That said, I don't want any thing which will keep paint from adhering [however you say it] near my brushes, canvas, et cetera.

I will try to be careful as possible, and mind my environment. Mercury such as that in "Chinese Red", from the hand of man, or his cause, is why pregnant women, or those considering it shouldn't eat swordfish.

I think I'm going to buy myself a pair of VERY bulletproof wash gloves of heavy rubber [or other material] to protect myself [and any possible offspring] from my paintings. Ant recommendations for heavy gloves to protect myself when I have to keep my pallete[s] sparkling?

Peace and love!

Lee

[JeffG]

Andrew Wyeth's bio mentions how when he works with a model, he will get up to adjust their pose or the angle of their face, while his fingers are smelling of yolk and caked with pigment.

So if he's getting paint on his fingers for 60 years, I guess he's in danger of dropping dead at the tragically young age of 90+.

[K. Lee]

. . . and chances are greater that a person will die in a car crash then on an airplane. Why take chances?

Vasilly Kandinsky, without checking any sources, died when his motor-control center [sclerosis of the cerebellum, I believe] was destroyed. Now what could cause that? Very worrysome to me. I cant imagine how much pain that would be. I do imagine pigments, and/or other pigments could/would cause such a disease.

While I own one Andrew Wyeth print, and think he and his father, N.C. are good artists, I think Vasilly Kandinsky is a much more effluent artist. I don't own any Kandinsky's either.

Peace and love!

Lee

[iconwriter77373]

Many years ago when my husband was in seminary, a lady worked with me in the free-clothing closet for the seminarians. She had lead poisoning somehow or another, and I watched her struggle with her neurological problems. She wasn't an artist, but her illness and eventual death certainly left quite an impression on me.

I don't even own lead white or yellow, partly due to the above, partly because my "studio", such as it is, is part of my bedroom (let's see, lead antimony three feet from my pillow.....? NOT) and partly because I already have health issues (lupus-like illness) and would just as soon not add lead poisoning to that, or any other poisoning, for that matter! :grin: I do have malachite and vermilion and am extremely cautious handling them when I mix them. All in all, I think the various suggestions for alternatives to fingers (especially the scrap typing paper that when you become famous you can sell, LOL) make more sense than fingers, for me at least.

Many thanks to all of you who have written. I love this forum, and appreciate the good humor with which newbies are answered.

Jan

[JeffG]

Does everyone understand that we are talking about egg tempera painting, and not oil painting?

[iconwriter77373]

Well, yes.

I was simply saying that I avoid most toxic pigments.

Jan

Does everyone understand that we are talking about egg tempera painting, and not oil painting?

[Anonymous]

I usually discharge my brush between my forefinger and the palette. That way you don't loose any paint on typing paper ( sounds like a costly excercise Dennis ! ) and only one finger gets dirty :!:

http://www.eggtempera.com/avatars/brushdischarge.jpg

Just a thought, using a palette knife instead of the finger, to press the excess solution right into the palette.
perhaps the one with a romboid shape would be more useful.

[RobM]

I guess using a palette knife would alleviate getting the fingers dirty but fingers are more sensitive than a palette knife.
Rob

[Alessandra Kelley]

When I was in my first year of art school, one of the grad students in painting had developed a severe skin reaction to turpentine which necessitated his wearing heavy rubber gloves to paint. It alarmed me enough that I immediately started wearing gloves in all my studio classes, and I got used to painting with them on. I'll sometimes take them off for utterly mild pigments, like burnt sienna, but on the whole I just wear them and have gotten used to them.

But I never learned to squeeze my brush with my fingers. Like Dennis H I use paper, although I usually use absorbent paper towels. I keep a sheet of black paper by also, for checking light-over-dark effects.

[iconwriter77373]

When I was in my first year of art school, one of the grad students in painting had developed a severe skin reaction to turpentine which necessitated his wearing heavy rubber gloves to paint. It alarmed me enough that I immediately started wearing gloves in all my studio classes, and I got used to painting with them on. I'll sometimes take them off for utterly mild pigments, like burnt sienna, but on the whole I just wear them and have gotten used to them.

But I never learned to squeeze my brush with my fingers. Like Dennis H I use paper, although I usually use absorbent paper towels. I keep a sheet of black paper by also, for checking light-over-dark effects.

Thanks for all your comments, Alessandra. I finished an iconography worskhop on Saturday, and the sheer number of times I had to wash my hands during that workshop has left my cuticles shredded, so today I took a page from you and worked with (non-latex) gloves while I painted.

The only real drawback, apart from them being a bit warm to wear, is that I cannot know by touch if my hands are a little wet, and could inadvertently make water spots on the work from my wrist or the side of my hand. OTOH, better that than getting vermilion into those cuts....!

Again, thanks to all of you who have so kindly discussed this issue. I continue to learn much from you all.

Cheers,

Janet

[Alessandra Kelley]

I guess after all these years wearing gloves I have gotten more sensitive to their "wetness" cues. I check them visually, of course, for drops of water when I'm painting, but I have become very sensitive to the little cool spots which betray damp on the gloves. It probably helps overall that my studio is in the basement, and already quite cool.

[iconwriter77373]

I guess after all these years wearing gloves I have gotten more sensitive to their "wetness" cues. I check them visually, of course, for drops of water when I'm painting, but I have become very sensitive to the little cool spots which betray damp on the gloves. It probably helps overall that my studio is in the basement, and already quite cool.

Cool would be good. Unfortunately, all we are down here in the Houston area is very wet...and very warm. My husband keeps reminding me that if we weren't having all this rain we'd be in the mid-90s instead of the low 80s. But it's still hot, muggy and squishy.

I will try to pay closer attention to that "cool spot" thing, though. Didn't realize it when I was wearing them, but I should have.

In a related vein, I was using dry pigments the other day (haven't gotten around to doing the grinding/mixing/wetting on all this stuff yet because it won't bloody quit raining long enough for me to set up outside, sigh). At any rate, I was being EXTREMELY careful to ensure that the tiny bit of pigment on my knife went into the palette cup into the couple of drops of water (we're talking mixing up just enough for a small part of an icon, obviously). And lo and behold, I could see this little, thin puff of pigment come up from the surface of the water as it dropped the less than one inch from the palette knife. Almost invisible, and if I hadn't been watching the stuff so carefully because I AM concerned about toxicity, etc., I'd never have noticed. Had you asked me before that, I'd have sworn that NO pigment "got loose" in that...certainly I didn't sneeze, cough, drop it, etc., but nevertheless, that little puff of pigment said (as it were) "I'm in the air you're breathing whether you know it or not". It was an obviously infintesimal amount of titanium white, so I'm not worried, but the point is that no matter how carefully I work with the stuff, and I was being VERY careful, it does get away from me and does get into the air, onto the work table, etc. Definitely going to get the stuff mixed with water asap. If I ever get a dry place to work........

Cheers,

Janet

[Camilla]

I guess we all agree that we shoul be careful when handling toxic pigments, but how careful shall we be?
Eating a spoonful of lead or mercury containing pigment would probebly not be the brightest thing to do, but pigments such as ochres, siennas and green earth are ... earth! Titanium white is one of the main ingredients in toothpaste and it is used as a UV-filter in sunscreens (lotions). So have no problems with spilling it all over the table, except the fact that then I would be all out of titanium white.
I would only consider wearing gloves if I was handling something toxic that was absorbed readily through the skin. But is this the case for any of the toxic pigments?
Tizian used lead white all his life, and he lived until he was almost a hundred years old. He didn't die from lead poisoning but from the plague. Some people say, that had he not died from the plague, he would still have been with us.
So how toxic are the toxic pigments?

[Alessandra Kelley]

Well, yes, the non-toxic pigments are, for the most part earth, but even earth can kill you if you get it deep in your lungs. That's why (and I can't believe it took me this long to think of saying it) I grind all of my pigments in water and store them wet. If the pigments are wet, they won't float around as a dust.

And sure, toxic pigments may not be absorbed into the skin, but they can embed themselves in tiny nooks and crannies in the skin, in cuticles, under nails, inside nail splits, in tiny scrapes, and so forth. A spoonful of lead can kill you. A tiny amount getting into your body, day after day over time, can destroy your health.

Look, in Russia they have used Cadmium as a poison to assassinate people. Toxic pigments are dangerous!

[déirídh]

not to dismiss the seriousness of this issue, for thoughtfulness and common sense should be employed when dealing w/ pigments, but i would hate for dennis' limerick to pass into the archives without comment. well done dennis. ed lear would be proud. and what else would i think of, if not a brush??? glad you stayed away from the 'discharge' part.........

[Anonymous]

ET is a benign medium compared to, say, ceramics. Back in my school days, I was aghast at the frightful dust conditions in and around the glaze lab. Lead was the main flux used low fire glaze making. Of course, there were all sorts of other heavy metal concoctions. There was lots of it, bins and bins, jars and jars, dust all about. Before class, I would steal in early, so I could turn on all the glazing hood fans.


Vince

[odyssic]

The thing to watch out for most is powdered pigment. I went to a seminar given by the head of OSHA (required for grad students at SFAI where I got my MFA) and she was saying that if you use dry pigments, say chalk pastels, on one bedroom in your house, traces could easily be detected on surfaces in every room in the house. That's a little frightening.

Then again, many old masters used toxic dry pigments probably daily and certainly without respirators and lived to a ripe old age.

That woman... Mona something... also said Alizrin Crimson was an unknown dangerous pigment.

Steven

[phyrehawke]

I've been using powdered "medieval" pigments for several years now. I have lead white, vermillion, verdigris, naples yellow, etc. I keep them all in sealed containers when they are not in use. All marked as poisonous. The most dangerous part is mixing them up, so I have started mixing up all the (toxic) pigment I have at once, as soon as I get it, with a mild binder like gum arabic, to be reconstituted later with a little water and glair or whatever. I do not wear gloves but I wash my hands and arms between pigments and take a shower as soon as I'm done and the containers are shut and stored, just to get the dust off. I do wear a mask when I mix up dry pigments. I do it on a day when the wind is calm, indoors, in an area well ventilated but free from breezes. It's the same place I do my gilding.

A word of warning about gloves. I used to be a nurse. I highly recommend vinyl or nitrile gloves instead of latex. 20% of the people who wear latex gloves regularly develop a reaction to latex eventually, and then they react to all kinds of things they never realized were related to rubber.
When painting, I do not wear gloves or a mask, as I already pre-mixed so there is no dust and I've learned to be careful with the brush. I use a plastic ashtray with a cigarette holder in the middle as a palette/brush holder. The brush/cig holding shape can be used to help squeeze extra paint out of your brush. I wet the pigments in their containers and pour what I need out onto the ashtray/palette and add whatever I like.
I am also careful about where I put the pigments. No lead white or naples yellow near or in verdigris...they react with one another and eventually the white will turn black.

I was shocked when my vermillion container molded due to adding gum arabic that I made myself. What kind of mold grows on poison and do I want to breathe it when I open the container? NO. I found a cure for the mold. I add one drop of clove oil to freshly mixed paint that is to be stored. I haven't noticed any ill effects yet, but I just started doing it recently, with good luck so far.

I LOVE to paint and I LOVE making my own from real pigments. I read up on my pigments, their toxicity and effects and methods of poison, and I do my best to minimize the damage. I read old works...like Cennini...and take heed of their advice regarding period pigments. Some old masters lived long lives working with toxic paints, but they had several experienced mentors telling them what to avoid and why for decades. If my life is shorter for working with period pigments then I suppose that's the cost of loving what I do. Nursing was a lot more hazardous.

[Alessandra Kelley]

Steven,

Might "Mona something" have been Monona Rossol? She is a seriously knowledgeable chemist/safety expert, and president of Arts, Crafts and Theater Safety Inc. I looked to her for help with my paper, "Safety Concerns for Pregnant Artists". She is definitely someone to look to for information.

As for Alizarin Crimson, it may well be a safety risk. Most pigments have not yet actually been tested for safety. In fact, "nontoxic" can mean that a pigment has been tested and is ok ... OR that it has NOT been tested and is only assumed to be ok since it hasn't been proved to be a poison yet.

Outrageous, no?

[Georgeoh]

I thought I remembered that vermillion is absorbed through the skin.
Vermilion or cinnabar is not absorbed through the skin. In fact, the toxicological effects of mercuric sulfide has not been studied, so it is unknown what effect it does have on human health. Most individuals writing on the subject conclude that it is poisonous because it contains mercury, which is clearly poisonous. However, this assumption is not necessarily sound, because chlorine is poisonous, yet when combined with sodium is not only non-poisonous, but absolutely essential for health.

Pigments are not absorbed through the skin, and the principal hazard of all dry powder pigments, toxic or not, is inhaling dust. Long exposure to dust can certainly irritate the lungs and give rise to other health hazards.

However, the best practice is to assume that all substances used in the artist's studio are toxic and always observe safe handling practices. If you use toxic pigments, you should work in a studio that is detached from any living area or at least has an entry that can be closed and has adequate ventilation separate from any living area. This is especially true if you have children or pets. Otherwise, you should not use any toxic pigments and all dry powder pigments should be ground in water in an area separate from any living areas.

[jeff]

There are some pigments that are absorbed through the skin and also some that are potential carcinogens through contact as well. I'd have to drag out my literature to recall which ones. From memory I think manganese may be one (ie umbers). I just use some absorbant paper at the root of the brush if I want to take out some of the excess fluid. Otherwise I just paint fast and get around the problem that way. I'm probably being a bit technically sloppy though.

jeff

[Georgeoh]

There are some pigments that are absorbed through the skin and also some that are potential carcinogens through contact as well.
I would be interested in what literature states this to be so, because most inoganic pigments are insoluble and hence are not absorbed through the skin. Even if they are soluble, this does not nercessarily mean they can be absorbed through the skin. You can read the MSDS for the pigment, since this indicates the possible routes of exposure.

[Alessandra Kelley]

I have some information at http://www.alessandrakelley.com/Hazards.html

and there are also some good books on safety hazards.

[Georgeoh]

I have studied these issues extensively and have not found what Jeff claims, namely that pigments are absorbed through the skin. I am well aware of the toxicity of many pigments, especially those used before 1850s.

[Dennis H]

I think the main hazards are transferring pigments from your hand to mouth, nose, or eyes; or ingesting airborne pigments. I use mostly earth colors, but I do spike my palette with some cobalts, vermillion, aureolin, etc. I try to be careful with all my colors and when I handle more hazardous one, I simply try to be even more aware of what I'm doing.
I probably hurt myself more, 30 years ago, when I bathed in lacquer thinners and benzene in my printmaking days.

[jeff]

I thought I'd better go through my literature to clear up what I've said. Apart from the obvious nasties that contain compounds of lead arsenic, mercury and antimony that are probably not used now much, the skin contact hazards (slight though still there) are:

Lamp black
Ceruleun Blue
Cobalt Blue
Chrome oxide green
Alizarin Crimson

Sorry if I started an umber panic. None of these will kill you or probably make you noticably sick, but they may compromise your health in unforeseen ways. As always take great care with pigments. There are many that have not been studied for toxicity that are in use too.

jeffB

[Dennis H]

Jeff,
What's the problem with lamp black? I didn't know about that one.
Thanks,
D

[Georgeoh]

Lamp black
Ceruleun Blue
Cobalt Blue
Chrome oxide green
Alizarin Crimson

The danger is ingesting these pigments as dry powders through your lungs (as in breathing the dust) or through your eyes, mouth, ears or other orifices by transferring them on your hands. There is little or no danger of absorbing these pigments through your skin unless, of course, the skin is broken, such as through a cut or abrasion.

Lamp black, chrome oxide green are not considered toxic unless expsoure is by breathing their dusts. The other pigments on your list have different levels of toxicity. The toxicity of these substances have been well studied because of their widespread use in consumer and industrial products (with the exception of alizarin crimson which has been limited to textile dyeing).

[jeff]

You may be right, George. I'm just going on the reference material that I've got that has come from a "health and safety arts database" created by the city of Tuscon, environmental division that divided risks into ingestion, inhalation, skin contact and other toxicity pathways http://www.ci.tucson.az.us/arthazards/medium.html. I've had enough problems with reactions to various chemicals used in the arts that I'm cautious about these things. Actually I wouldn't mind seeing your information.

As for what lamp black does to one, Dennis, I don't know. Ignorance is bliss.

jeff

[jeff]

Actually I looked it up and it is only considered an irritant - which I guess depends on how reactive you are personally.

[jeff]

Alizarin Crimson is classed as a permeator, so it will penetrate the skin.

[Georgeoh]

...a "health and safety arts database" created by the city of Tuscon, environmental division that divided risks into ingestion, inhalation, skin contact and other toxicity pathways http://www.ci.tucson.az.us/arthazards/medium.html.
The information at this web site is not entirely accurate and is based on secondary sources (making this a tertiary source of information). Usually the best information is usually contained on the manufacturers' MSDS or government or industry funded toxicology studies.

[Alessandra Kelley]

Somewhere in my research I found that Lamp Black can cause cancer by skin contact. I was only using ASTM sources and genetic counselling handouts from the University of Chicago Hospitals, so I consider it accurate information.

[jeff]

Since I have just made some lamp black I've got an abiding interest in this topic now. I found a good and extended explaination of the studies on it at http://www.inchem.org/documents/iarc/vol65/carbon.html.
The issue is obviously not so simple. Commercial LB is used in so many things that we are all normally exposed - for instance printing ink. Also commercially available LB is created from different sources than the sort I made using linseed oil (I'm reassuring myself here) and may contain different by-products. It is the contaminants that are the problem. At the above url they seem to come down on the side of no observed increase in skin cancers due to exposure, but have left it somewhat open due to the known carcinogenic properties of the contaminants. In any case any concerns are overcome by the use of gloves (maybe even while reading the newspaper ;).

jeff

[Georgeoh]

I was only using ASTM sources and genetic counselling handouts from the University of Chicago Hospitals, so I consider it accurate information.
It would be better to provide the actual citations or at least references to the documents that you read so that others can make their own independent conclusions. I am a member of the ASTM and I have not seen any study in this regards. I would be interested to know if they had published such a study.

[JanMoore]

I was interested in Jeff's list because I have MSDS sheets on these (except lamp black). My son used to work for a paint manufacturer (industrial) and I had him send me some pigments. He sent along these sheets.

Chromium Green: prolonged inhalation or swallowing can be harmful. Skin contact may cause dry skin. Wash skin with soap and water. MSDS code: 20175

Cerulean Blue: basically the same as green. Skin contact may cause allergic reaction. MSDS Code: 05410600100

Cobalt Blue: same as Cerulean. MSDS Code: 541-039CALC

Madder Lake Concentrate (i.e., Alizerin): again refers to prolonged inhalation and swallowing. Prolonged skin contact may cause irritation. MSDS Code: 837-598

None of these have been shown to be carcinogenic. The main hazard seems to be prolonged inhalation. So stop sniffing your pigments!

If you can't find this info on the internet, I'd be happy to scan them for anyone who wants a copy. I also have Raw Sienna and Burnt Umber.

[Alessandra Kelley]

Georgeoh wrote:

It would be better to provide the actual citations or at least references to the documents that you read so that others can make their own independent conclusions. I am a member of the ASTM and I have not seen any study in this regards. I would be interested to know if they had published such a study.

You're right of course, and I suppose this is why the internet is so frustrating to researchers. I've been pretty negligent in citation. When I checked Mark Gottsegen's book, "The Painter's Handbook" (a majorly helpful resource and my "quick-check" reference), I couldn't find any mention of skin cancer hazard, so I think it's most likely to have been somewhere in the U of C medical data sheets (which are, I'm afraid, buried in my shambolic filing system). I fear I'm going to have to re-research my findings and cite them properly if I want them to be of use. I apologise for my amateurism.

jeff's link is probably more useful; it seems to claim ambiguous results in attempts to test carcinogenic properties, among other things.

[Georgeoh]

None of these have been shown to be carcinogenic. The main hazard seems to be prolonged inhalation. So stop sniffing your pigments!
This is what is typically reported in the MSDS for powders that is, inhaling dusts can cause irritation to the lungs. MSDS is intended for workers who may be exposed to large amounts of these products. For the pigments listed there are no toxicology reported for absorbtion through the skin and none are classified as carcinogens.

Of course, there are pigments that are toxic and some are carcinogenic, but these are very few. At Natural Pigments (http://www.naturalpigments.com), these pigments are clearly identified on labels and online.

[dbclemons]

Is there a good reference site that list the pigment color codes (PBr, PY, etc.) and what minerals they represent? I keep looking and asking around, but haven't found anything yet. Is that an ASTM thing?

[RobM]

Dave, I have just added the pigment codes at
http://www.eggtempera.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=661
so that may answer part of your question.

[dbclemons]

That will do nicely. Thank you!

[jeff]

This has all been very helpful to me; and I would like to ask one further question: How do people dispose of and cleanup their toxic waste? Do you have a special sink or trough and do you let it go into the sewer system, that sort of thing?

jeff

[RobM]

I guess whatever we do it may not be quite right. I allow the paint to dry, then scrape it off the palette, put it in the dustbin and then it is landfill. There are no other facilities here in the UK. I certainly do not allow anything to go into the drainage system. When pigments do get suspended in water, from cleaning palette knives, mullers etc, I do recycle the water on my garden. So far the plants have not suffered or taken on strange hue!!
Rob

[Bert Congdon]

I would not put heavy metals in my garden. With the exception of mercury, pigments have to be ingested to be harmful, in my opinion. When I started house painting, I would eat my lunch, handling my sandwich, with lead covered hands. One day someone told me they thought it was poisonous. After that I wiped my hands a litle. I have heard of people that would not go in a house if there was lead on it or in it.

Lead settles in you bones and stays there. I give great exrays. A doctor asked me one time why we painters put all that lead everywhere. First of all, when I got to work, no one asked me what kind of paint I wanted to put on that day. Besides that, lead was everywhere. It was in all oil base paints, and oil was all we had, and it was required by the government.

When I grind colors, I wear a mask because I don't want to ingest the pigments. Some metals can be absorbed into plants, especially mercury.
Mercury has some other properties that are displeasing. You don't have to ingest it, just get near it. It is hard to find and very expensive. It is the only pigment I don't use. One here mentioned lamp black. It's just soot.
I don't want to eat it, but I am sure it would be harmless if I did.

In the early forties, there was a story in the Readers Digest about the small town that hired a man to paint a mural on a wall in their city hall. Well, it seems the people had never seen anything like this, so thy all turned out to see their only piece of art being created. They even watched him eat lunch; but they kibitzed until the artist was a little tired, no, a lot tired of it, so he filled empty paint tubes with peanut butter, grape jelly,
etc. etc. When he sat down to eat his lunch, he opened his paint satchel, took out two slices of bread, and proceeded to spead what appeared to be paint on his bread, made a sandwich and proceeded to eat it. The crowd silently began to leave the premises no more to return. The man who told the story said it happened in his boyhood, but the town still talked about the crazy painter who ate paint. I decided back then, that if I ever painted a mural (never have) I would have those supplies on hand.

[mona]

I teach about safe handling of pigments when I lecture on egg tempera, and I have a few broad comments, having once sat through a life-changing lecture by Monona Rossol to a group of children's book artists in NYC.

As one person in this topic already mentioned Monona, I'll add more about her perspective, because I think she truly understands the issues. Monona has degrees in both art and chemistry. From this dual reference point she understands not only the chemical hazards, but also the habits and practical needs of professional artists during their working process. Overall, she was shocked to find during her training that the same toxic materials that required chemists donning masks, protective clothing and following special clean-up and ventilation procedures, are almost completely casually treated in the art world by comparison.

While she may be a tad over-cautious, I got her overall point, and have cared about this issue ever since. Over the past few years on these postings some have queried or answered about specific colors' toxicity, but the overall safety practices, to be truly effective, need to become global habits no matter what specific materials you are handling. Monona points out that when we 'abandon' ourselves to our painting bliss we are all too unaware of what color we are painting with, even though, like Dennis, I try to track it.

Here are the reasonable practices I began and continue to use after Monona's lecture and book influenced me:

I try to substitute non-toxic colors wherever possible, but do use some toxic pigment. I wear a layer of Art-guard on my hands at all times when I paint, and when I mix pigments. Before snacking or food-handling, I wash hands, then re-apply art guard before resuming work. Art-guard puts a barrier between your skin and pigment and if you don't think pigment absorbs into your skin (!) try a comparison test of washing your pigment-covered hands once with barrier cream, and once without. BIG difference. I lose track of papercuts, and any break in the skin counts.
Despite what the experts say, I do believe toxicity can be absorbed through the skin, so no matter what anyone says, I do my best to protect my hands.

Living in a small apartment, I mix pigment in the bathroom, so first I take my toothbrush, soap, and other personal use items out of the room. I clean-up immediately after the pigment mix. I'll admit I don't always wear a respirator mask every single time, but think I should. The dual hazards of pigment dust, which apply equally to pastel (actually is worse with pastel, because at least with egg tempera, once it is mixed with a liquid vehicle it is safe to breathe), as previously mentioned, are inhalation, and toxicity content. Inhalation is cumulative. According to Monona, toxic pigment is risky even in small quantities. When I do the occasional pastel, I wear a NIOSH-approved respirator (the kind Monona recommends is used in industry, and not found in your local hardware store or at Lowe's). Some art schools, such as Boston School of Fine Arts, do not even permit their students to use pastels in class. Pastel is better as an outdoor activity.

I wear an old work apron. I also wash the clothes I wore after working heavily with pastel or pigment dust, and avoid eating/drinking in the room where I raised pigment dust.

To get excess pigment out of my brush, I don't use fingers. In my left hand is my brush, and in my right is a sheet of Bounty paper towel which is for frequently unloading excess pigment. BTW, Bounty is also the best paper towel for rolling the egg yolk to get the egg white off the yolk sac,--- the most absorbent.

[jeff]

You take a great many precautions Mona. It underlines the fact that there seems to be no definitive assurances as to just how dangerous it is to use many of the pigments we are dealing with regularly. Inhalation and ingestion obviously should be avoided at all costs and through whatever means. Keeping down exposure to dust is easy by making sure the pigments are safely wet. Ingestion can occur from residues on the hands. Exposure through the skin is not clear still, but given the risk of ingestion and of cumulative poisoning it sounds as though some use of gloves or some barrier on the hands is worth considering. Residues from the cleaning area may be a significant risk as well and may justify the use of specially set aside utensils (eg a special wash bucket - but emptied where?) used only for that purpose.

I was talking to some student artists at a pastels class recently and also their teacher and generally the attitude was "You've got to die of something". It all seems to hard sometimes as an issue for creative people to deal with - but I think that mainly stems from no clear knowledge about real risks being widely available. Opinions vary widely as we see in this forum. Is there a middle road?

jeff

[dbclemons]

I saw a news report recently about a young man working on a contruction site, who was carelessly handed a nailgun that he even more carelessly grabbed, and the result was a 6 inch nail lodged in his chest a few millimeters from his heart. He survived, but learned a valuable lesson in a manner that made a lasting impression on him, so to speak. If an artist shrugs off the risks of the materials they use, they should only blame themselves or an equally ignorant instructor. It's like Natural Selection.

[jeff]

The difficulty though is that the sort of chronic illness that might come about from exposure to these toxins is likely to affect people later in life - making for a miserable existence rather than instant death. Perhaps I'm too pessimistic however.

jeff

[maplebrush]

Hmmm. I certainly have gotten a lot of great advise for how to keep this stuff directly off my body. However, if pigment is going into the environment, no matter what you do, you're going to get nailed eventually. However, other than pouring it over (potentially mutant) garden plants (will they arise at night and walk the planet? Killer tomatoes, here we come.) no one has addressed this. As an Environmentalist (hey, I'm from Vermont. It's a social requirement, at least on paper.) I'd really like to know if there is an alternative to the landfill or sewage system. I live in a city, so I do have a sewage treatment plant that gets a shot at most of what I drop down the drain. I don't know if they treat this, however.

-M

[Alessandra Kelley]

In Chicago we have special toxic waste collection centers where you can bring paint thinners and other toxic household chemicals, as well as unwanted paints, including artist paints.

Hooray for civic minded pollution control.

[Kate]

I use a barrier cream as wearing gloves drives me batty.I have junk clothes used only for painting that I don't wash with the rest of my stuff.I also try to wear a little paper mask and run an air filter in my workshop.

All that said- I left an Icon of St. Anthony the Desert Father to dry on a table and my dog climbed up on the table and licked off his face and beard.....after an emergency trip the vet w/ me freaking out the whole way .......he fine... probably not a good diet for every day but beyond a healthy wolf hound stomach....who knows?

[jpohl]

I thought I'd better go through my literature to clear up what I've said. Apart from the obvious nasties that contain compounds of lead arsenic, mercury and antimony that are probably not used now much, the skin contact hazards (slight though still there) are:

Lamp black
Ceruleun Blue
Cobalt Blue
Chrome oxide green
Alizarin Crimson

Sorry if I started an umber panic. None of these will kill you or probably make you noticably sick, but they may compromise your health in unforeseen ways. As always take great care with pigments. There are many that have not been studied for toxicity that are in use too.

jeffB

good to know... thank you for bringing this thread to the front of the line. I'm taking notes... i'd be worried about barrier creams getting in the brush hair or I'd consider it an option. I'm one of those with a reaction to latex, but have to careful that I don't get pigment in my skin/under my nails and get it on my little ones. will have to read this whole thread when I have more time...

thank you everyone. jp.

[Danny]

I'm one of those with a reaction to latex,


I work with Nitrile gloves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_gloves)
made of the non-latex nitrile rubber. They are very resistant against chemicals. They don't smell like latex does and fit like a second skin in a few minutes. I buy them by 100 pieces in a box. They are sold in different sizes. If you prefer to work with gloves, these are the best! No medic or tattoo artist works without 'm.

[jpohl]

I work with Nitrile gloves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_gloves)
made of the non-latex nitrile rubber. They are very resistant against chemicals. They don't smell like latex does and fit like a second skin in a few minutes. I buy them by 100 pieces in a box. They are sold in different sizes. If you prefer to work with gloves, these are the best! No medic or tattoo artist works without 'm.

thank you so much... will have to look into it and consider it.. might be better for mulling and mixing.... the bright colour might throw off judgment for painting though. i may just opt for barrier creams and wiping on paper towels for more "toxic" pigments... wondering how much more expensive that will prove though... but paint has to come cheaper than health, especially while I have other people to consider...the days of painting with my body covered in oil paint are over.... part of the reason I'm switching from oil is that I had a hard time keeping it off my skin... a talented friend of mine who also had two babies around the same time has stuck with oil.. but she's not the kind to get a brush mark on her.... and her biggest advice to me was "daycare"... maybe part time soon, but i'm used to going with out sleep at this point any way. what's another few years? But the truth is I've fallen for the possibilities I see in egg tempera health concerns aside...

I remember asking Mary Pratt how she kept painting with five children. She didn't really get underway until they were a little older, and she told me she worked while everyone else was sleeping and needed very little sleep.