What should I use/where can I get a slab for grinding?

[lhhastings]

Hi,
I am just starting in this medium. I have read quite a bit and bought books, etc. to understand the medium better. I have most of the equipment recommended, including a glass muller, but I haven't found anywhere to buy the glass slab (or other material). Can you use something around the house? What do you all use for grinding the pigment with water? Do I need a mortar and pestle as well as the glass muller?

Is it absolutely necessary to grind the dry pigment, or can you add water without grinding the pigment?

Hope you can help. There is a lot to learn I think.

Thanks,
Laura

[turlogh]

Hi,
I am just starting in this medium. I have read quite a bit and bought books, etc. to understand the medium better. I have most of the equipment recommended, including a glass muller, but I haven't found anywhere to buy the glass slab (or other material). Can you use something around the house? What do you all use for grinding the pigment with water? Do I need a mortar and pestle as well as the glass muller?
Any flat piece of glass will do; you can get a 12" x 12" square cut for you at any glass store. Both the muller and glass need to be frosted, and re-frosted periodically as grinding makes the glass smooth again. You can frost glass by grinding carbonundrum powder in water, just like you grind pigment. Carbonundrum powder can be ordered from www.sinopia.com

Is it absolutely necessary to grind the dry pigment, or can you add water without grinding the pigment?
No, it isn't necessary if you are using the machine-ground pigments one normally purchases for painting. You can put the pigment in a small glass jar, add water, put the cap on, and shake the jar. Instant pigment paste, suitable for mixing with egg yolk to make egg tempera paint. Occasionally one gets pigment that is a bit gritty and is improved by grinding, but this is rare.

[Bert Congdon]

I first started with a piece of glass that I sandblasted. But, I found it to be too small and to light...tended to move around. Then I found an old piece of marble an inch thick and about 20 inches square that someone was throwing out. This has been much more to my liking, but now both the muller and the marble are pretty smooth. Some day I am going to use the ground up carborundum I got from Kremer. That marble is a pain to lug around, but in use it just sits there like the rock that it is. Don't be surprised Laura if the pigment gathrs around the outside edge of the muller. Just take your palette knife and scrape it off, plop it on to the slab, and grind on. In my opinion, the reason for re-grinding is to break apart the clumps that the color particles form after the factory grinding.

Bert

[lhhastings]

Thank you both for your replies. I have sent for some pigments from Sinopia and the muller. Good prices there. I have been thinking I could go to Home Depot and buy a piece of granite kitchen counter material. What do you think of that idea.

I really appreciate your help. As a young person, I attended art school for many years and worked principally in water color and/or pastel was able to understand those mediums quite well, but I never felt fulfilled with them. Lately I have been working in oil, but don't really like how long it takes to dry, etc.

From what I have read and seen, I really think egg tempera will be the medium I can fully enjoy. I am very excited about starting to use it, and think it is great to have experts like this group to ask questions.

Thanks again,
Laura

[PhilS]

Laura,
I agree with Turlogh, grinding generally isn't necessary. For me, anyway. If you do find that you want to grind your pigments you might try going to a monument shop (where they make tombstones) and asking them for a small scrap piece of marble. That's what I did. The guy just handed me a foot square piece, no charge. He was glad to be rid of it, he said.
Just a suggestion.
Phil

[Bert Congdon]

Way to go Phil. You made me remember that I have a couple of granite sink cut-outs I got from a company that installs granite counter tops. Bert

[Anonymous]

I use a 30" tempered glass plate. I can't remember from where. I know I didn't pay for it. Like it has been pointed out, just grind the glass with your muller wetted carborundum, and rinse. I had to grid a lot of pigments, since they are wild. I found, I can sense the proper consistency, when the pigment becomes buttery.

Any pigment containing manganese is a bear to get fully off the plate.

I, personally, shy away from using marble, or granite. They are pigmented. I think that would be grinding pigment into pigment. Some of my colors have a purity I don't want to jeopardize.

Vince

[lhhastings]

Hi, everyone,

Thank you again for your replies. These are great suggestions! Phil, I love your work (that I have seen on the site) and if you paint like that without grinding, I think it would work for me.

I just got my first pigments from Sinopia. I am so excited. They are so beautiful.

I will be going out of town next week, but as soon as I get back, I will dig into my first egg tempera adventure!

I am sure I will continue to have questions. I am so happy to have found this friendly bunch of people to help.

Thank you!

Laura

[Bert Congdon]

If you put a tiny bit of pigment on a piece of glass, put your pallette knife on it and press down, and listen carefully you will likely hear a little pip...pip...pip. That is the little clumps of color breaking apart. My teacher showed me that to demonstrate why I had to mull, and I have been mulling ever since. I think getting a piece of granite from Home Depot is a fine idea if it doesn't cost too much.

[jeff]

It may sound crude but I used a small slab of window glass and attacked it with some wet and dry sandpaper which tends to use carborundum. It worked OK and was easy to do. I made a muller the same way and just glued a handle onto the smaller bit of glass and ground up the edges a bit. It cost me the price of the sandpaper really and is perfectly good - though very unprofessional looking.

Isn't marble to soft to use though? Some of the pigments are very hard, especially if you are grinding from collected materials. Granite would be OK I suppose.

jeff

[Alessandra Kelley]

Yes, marble is too soft. I use it, though, because I don't actually grind my pigments, I just mull them into water.

[Richard]

I am writing from the UK and here we currently have a fashion for stone coasters and placemats for table settings. I can get really very inexpensive slabs of granite, about A4 size approx 21cms by 29.7 cms for under £5 about $8 dollars from most stores that have a household section. The only drawback is that they are very highly polished and need the surface textured by grinding with some carborundum, before they are suitable for use. Mostly I don't grind but occasionally I use a natural azurite or vermillion (which are naturally gritty) , both from Kremer, which I grind with water as needed.
Regards Richard

[Darya Carney]

A tempered glass tabletop works well -- mine started out smooth but has become "frosted" just from grinding a few hard pigments.

[karen lee]

I have 80, 150, 400 and XXX for litho. I can grind one side of my glass litho ink slab to use for mullling pigments, but which grit should I use?
Thank you

[paintrman]

Karen,

Unless you are a purist and want to be involved in every step of the process, you can do what I do. I just pour the dry pigment into a baby food jar and add purified water and shake. This works just fine. Mulling simply breaks up the clumps and isn't really making the particles smaller. I haven't had any problems with this method. If the particles don't seem to be mixing well, I add a little alcohol.

I also buy dispersions which is much better for your health (no powders to breath in or touch). They are affordable and you don't have to buy a lifetime supply as with some dry pigments.

Good luck!